Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 August 2

__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ = August 2 =

How to update a LUA global variable between multiple Module function calls from a wiki page?
I would like to use a global variable to display a ranking of a list of mountains in a table. However, I cannot get the updated global variable value being saved between invocations of a module function in a wiki page. So in the Module I have: rank_number = 0

function p.list(frame) rank_number = rank_number + 1 return '|-\n|align=center|' .. rank_number .. '|| list item\n' end

In my wiki page I have:

However, the rank number displayed is "1" for both items. My guess is the rank number is being reset to 0 on each call to list. I've googled but I just can't find a way to do what I want. Is this not possible with LUA invoked multiple times from a single wiki page? RedWolf (talk) 00:03, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * I suggest you ask at WT:Lua. ColinFine (talk) 10:16, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Not possible. Just as templates cannot save anything, modules cannot save anything.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 11:07, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. Lua on Wikipedia not as useful as I thought it was. I have posted a follow-up at Wikipedia_talk:Lua. RedWolf (talk) 18:13, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. Lua on Wikipedia not as useful as I thought it was. I have posted a follow-up at Wikipedia_talk:Lua. RedWolf (talk) 18:13, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Requesting Deletion of a Draft
Hi everyone,

I wanted to ask about deleting a draft I have. I translated the page Draft:LSP discography from the Russian Wikipedia a while back, but I soon realized it was full of errors. It was moved to a draftspace, but now I'm considering just starting over the translation and resubmitting a new page. Can that page be deleted so I can get it off of my hands for now? Please let me know. Thank you in advance for a reply. Losipov (talk) 00:08, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You may place Db-author on the draft for an administrator to delete it. RudolfRed (talk) 00:13, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Undelete
A page was deleted for purely ego reasons, inconsistent with WP guidelines. How do I restore “Frank Morano” (the radio host) and prevent anyone from bringing a political vendetta against it? RobotUSA (talk) 05:40, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi RobotUSA. It looks like the article was deleted per a consensus established at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Frank Morano (2nd nomination). So, it can't be restored without another consensus in favor of doing so being first established. My suggestion to you would to first re-read through the discussion that lead to the article's deletion and then follow WP:CLOSECHALLENGE if you still disagree with the close of the discussion. Generally, the first thing to do would be discuss things with the administrator who closed the discussion and explain why you think the close wasn't in accordance with relevant Wikipedia policy. If you're unable to convince the administrator that a mistake was made, you can then request a WP:DELETIONREVIEW, where you can once again explain why the close was not in accordance relevant Wikipedia policy. FWIW, stating the article was deleted for purely ego reasons and that you want to prevent anyone from bringing a political vendetta against it is likely going to fall on deaf ears because neither of those two arguments are based upon relevant Wikipedia policy. You'll have much better chance if you focus on Wikipedia:Notability (people) and how Morano clearly satisfies that guideline. Finally, if the article is restored, there's no way to prevent others from editing it except under certain specific conditions when page protection is deemed necessary, and only a Wikipedia administrator can do that. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:08, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks @Marchjuly! I also directed @RobotUSA to deletion review as I stand by my close of that discussion. There was canvassing and meatpuppetry so would suggest a watchful eye on the deletion review. Star   Mississippi  12:45, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Being accused of something I didn't do
why are u accusing me of editing an item on a random rap singer i have never heard of. I have never edited one of ur items. for one your information is not reliable. not by serious educational establishments..get your fact right..again 92.40.214.51 (talk) 07:18, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi IP 92.40.214.51. All the edits made using the IP address 92.40.214.51 can be seen here. In some cases, multiple users may be editing from the same IP address, and there's really no way (techinical or otherwise) for Wikipedia to determine which person might have made which edit; the best it can do is attribute all of the edits to the same IP address. One way to avoid getting lumped in with others in cases like this is to register for an WP:ACCOUNT. If you do so, and log in to your account each time you edit, then all of your edits will be attributed to that account. Moreover, edits made by other users sharing the same IP address as you will not be attributed to your account unless they're actually made with your account. This is one of the advantages of registering for an account. As for the rest of your post, Wikipedia has never really considered itself to be a reliable source of information as explained in Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a reliable source and Wikipedia:General disclaimer. The Reliability of Wikipedia is actually something that has been studied a number of times by various persons and organizations since the project began. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:03, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Reliability of birth certificates
I've gone through WP:RSE, but there's not much information about the use. I still think birth certificates especially if they can be accessed through government websites and cross verified by any reliable or independent sources, can still be considered reliable. Or should they be completely avoided in general? Rejoy2003(talk) 08:06, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi . Birth certificates are generally considered to be WP:PRIMARY sources; in other words, there are limitations as to how they may be used even when they are considered reliable, particularly with respect to content about living persons. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:18, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your reply. I see, so a non-BLP subject will have no limitations to such use of primary sources. And in the case of BLP persons, best not to solely depend on public records like birth certificates unless it can be supported by a secondary source. Rejoy2003(talk) 08:24, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I see, so a non-BLP subject will have no limitations to such use of primary sources. is not correct at all, and my apologies if something I posted gave you that impression. A WP:PRIMARY source is always going to have limitations on how it's considered OK to be used regardless of which article it's used in; it's just that there are even stricter limitations placed on primary sources about living people because the potential for harm due to misuse is generally deemed to be greater. -- Marchjuly (talk) 10:29, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I understand regarding BLP subjects as it goes under general basis. So we can still use primary sources like birth certificates if backed with a secondary or independent source. What will be recommended if I come across an article that has one primary source but no secondary source or want to add a content with a primary source and no secondary source?Rejoy2003(talk) 10:51, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * A) Yes. Consider Adelina Patti, the discovery of whose birth certificate/entry in a register of births and deaths was reported in a reputable newspaper (ie a reliable source). I'm fairly sure that use of primary sources is generally frowned on at WP, but reliable secondary sources which mention or discuss them certainly are. B) It should probably not be added, or deleted if it exists. MinorProphet (talk) 12:39, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with the "frowned" part. Hence, I'm being very careful of these primary sources. I'm sorry, I didn't get what you meant by the other part of your answer. What are you referring to? Also I think we can all agree that state government websites too are considered reliable sources, if the birth information can be accessed through them. Rejoy2003(talk) 12:54, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * This discussion really belongs on WP:RSN not here. There has been considerable discussion of this question, and it is a lot more nuanced that a simple issue of whether a birth certificate is 'reliable'. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:04, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * , before the internet came along, I thought that my name was rare. Then, I learned that there are quite a few people who share my name. Please read what I wrote at Talk:Frederick Meyer 13 years ago about two men with the same name, roughly similar careers, who died the same year. Also, please read Don't build the Frankenstein for amusing examples of what can go wrong. Cullen328 (talk) 18:06, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your reply. Sadly, it hasn't helped me with anything. I understand the problems it can create with "two people with two same names". What if it is in the case of the parents too involved in it. I assume now it'll be easier to add references since both Meyers' won't have the same parents names. Also my initial question was involving state governments etc. <b style="color:#000;">Rejoy</b>2003(<b style="color:#060;">talk</b>) 20:35, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

My talk page
Would there be someone who could archive my talk page? The messages are starting to become too many. JackkBrown (talk) 13:57, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * @JackkBrown: That would be you, after reading Help:Archiving a talk page. Bazza (talk) 14:02, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Global distribution of readers
I have to believe WMF tracks this somewhere, but I don't know where to look. Where can I find the approx. distribution of en.wiki (i.e. English only) readership? Percent from the US, percent from Canada, percent from UK, percent from Outer Globnardistan, etc. If they have similar numbers for en.wiki editors, that would be cool too. Pointing me to a FAQ somewhere and trouting me for not being able to find something that is easy to find would be fine. Floquenbeam (talk) 15:13, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Answering my own question; if that means I should remove this, please feel free, but maybe it will help someone searching the archives. It just occurred to me to look at the article English Wikipedia, instead of in project space, and following a trail of links from one of the images led me to here, where it looks like there is a wealth of info to poke thru. Floquenbeam (talk) 15:21, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Floquenbeam, thank you for the link. TSventon (talk) 15:43, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * If you're like me, then I'm sorry; I've just made your entire afternoon unproductive. Floquenbeam (talk) 15:47, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Book Series template
Is there a template to cite Scholarly Book Series, like there is one to cite journals? Crainsaw (talk) 17:23, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Why would you want to cite a series, rather than a book? Each citation is to a specific page in a specific book. Cite book has a  parameter, if you want to specify that. ColinFine (talk) 20:25, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * cite book provides for the inclusion of a series name in the series parameter. Deor (talk) 20:49, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Remove foreign language wikis from my account
How do I stop getting notifications from Kazakh and Romanian Wikipedias? Elixo (talk) 19:58, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello! Go to Special:Preferences, then notifications. Scroll down to the Cross-wiki notifications and uncheck "Show notifications from other wikis". Happy editing,  Heart  (talk) 20:15, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * If you don't edit at a wiki then you usually get at most one notification. Your account is automatically created at the wiki if you view any page while logged in. Accounts cannot be removed. Some wikis post welcome messages to the talk page of new accounts and you may get notified of this once. You recently changed username so your talk pages with old welcome messages were moved to the new name and you may also have been notified of this. The notifications will probably stop if you aren't renamed again. You can disable notifications at Special:GlobalPreferences. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:22, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Formatting columns in
At Zhuge Liang, there are two poems with sidey-side Chinese original and English translations, inside &lt;poem> tags inside ...$)$ markup, which I think calls Wikitable?The Chinese original in the left column is in seven-character verse, so it needs space for eight monospaced Chinese characters: seven words and a punctuation mark. On mobile, this displays as six characters on the first line, with the final character and punctuation mark trailing on the line below. I've tried modifying the column width with both !colwidth= and !colspan=, but no matter which values I pick, it both narrows the column and erroneously displays the text in boldface, which is an MOS violation for sans serif Chinese text. Or maybe it's just bolding the text and taking up additional space per character because of that?Is there any way to force this to display reasonably? The documentation for Template:Wikitable is silent on this matter. Folly Mox (talk) 21:10, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Folly Mox, I'm almost clueless, and speak up only because nobody else has done so. You shouldn't be surprised if prefacing colwidth or colspan with "!" brings boldface, as either, I believe, turns what otherwise would be HTML td (a table cell) into HTML th (a table header cell), which is conventionally rendered with boldface (although CSS can override this). In HTML (I can't speak for Mediawiki), "colspan=3", for example, causes the particular cell (in the particular row) to span what would otherwise be occupied not by one but by three cells; colspan seems to be irrelevant to what you want. Incidentally, there are some oddities in the English: Zhuge Liang' unkept temple → Zhuge Liang's unkempt temple | the orioles sings → the oriole sings / the orioles sing | Zhuge's fame overshadow the universe → Zhuge's fame overshadows/overshadowed the universe | wholeheartly → wholeheartedly | disregard of → disregarding | And what are the meanings of "overlasting" and, in this context, "feather"? -- Hoary (talk) 00:21, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * User:Hoary haha wow I hadn't even looked at the translations. It's Du Fu though so hopefully we can track down a real translation. The Zhuge Liang article was recently overwritten by an almost finished 2018 draft, and editors are currently in the process of buttoning it up. I'll see if I can figure out the syntax for applying colwidth / colspan to table cells instead of turning it into a table header, although I have a discouraging suspicion those values will be suppressed on mobile, which is naturally the only view that suffers an issue here.To answer your question, with the caveat that a lot of poetic vocabulary is above my paygrade since probably year one of grad school or earlier, lo these ten years hence, and the supplementary caveat that the "poetry" part of poetry is the part lost in translation, I'd probably render the "feather" line "floating above the mists of time like a feather". Getting into everything that's wrong about that rendering and what artistry and nuance and context is lost in translating it like that as a single line would take a much longer post. For now I'll see if I can find some Du Fu translations I can access. The translations as they stand (presumably User:Lonelydarksky's own) do have grammatical issues and confusey bits. Folly Mox (talk) 00:49, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Incidentally,  is built-in syntax and does not call Wikitable, which is instead a wrapper template that produces the built-in syntax. The actual documentation for wikitables is at Help:Table, although I haven't checked to see if it answers your questions. * Pppery * <sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...  00:54, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Perhaps rewrite using instead of wilitables?  And no templates in section headers...
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 01:05, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oops! I just realised what you meant by that last statement. I thought you were referring to the article. Thanks for fixing that for me; I'll remember not to do that again. Folly Mox (talk) 01:37, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oops! I just realised what you meant by that last statement. I thought you were referring to the article. Thanks for fixing that for me; I'll remember not to do that again. Folly Mox (talk) 01:37, 3 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Folly Mox, older translations are likely to be "poetic" (and not in a good sense); newer published translations are likely to be (conventionally, "all rights reserved") copyright. -- Hoary (talk) 01:10, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * User:Hoary Yeah licensing is likely to be an issue. I have already found a source with eight different published translations and a novel synthesis, which is actually enough translations to use a separate one per line of the poem, but that kinda feels like cheating.User:Pppery I will check out Help:Table and User:Trappist the monk I'll have a look at verse translation and see which one if either will best address this issue. Thanks to all respondents 🙏🏽 Folly Mox (talk) 01:27, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Page: Bouffant; paragraph: "History"
Would someone be so kind as to explain to me why, in the middle of the paragraph, there are (very inconvenient) square brackets? JackkBrown (talk) 21:43, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Do you have an example? Perhaps a couple? Since it may vary by the subject or the editor.


 * As a side comment re; edit summarys, you may not think it's important, but otherwise you are making editors work harder to figure out what you are doing. And, it's harder to do research on versions over time. It would be so kind of you to add edit summaries. They don't have to be fancy, you could make up a short list: add, edit, fix, remove. That alone would help.–CaroleHenson (talk) 21:53, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * The code to insert an image was copied from es Wikipedia and appeared as code, rather than an image. I fixed it by replacing "Archivo" with "file". TSventon (talk) 22:00, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * If I am understanding correctly, you copied something like center|500x500px|


 * I don't know this syntax used by es.wikipedia, but the square brackets are part of the formatting for images.


 * There are some times that users place images in paragraphs, but that's very sloppy. When I come across it, I move the image to the top of the paragraph with relevant content. See MOS:IMAGELOC. Does that help?–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:10, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * CaroleHenson the image was added to Bouffant a few days ago by an IP editor here and probably should be moved. TSventon (talk) 22:18, 2 August 2023 (UTC)


 * , Gotcha. I am going to integrate it with relevant text and do the same for the rest of the images.–CaroleHenson (talk) 22:35, 2 August 2023 (UTC)