Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 December 19

__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ = December 19 =

Script warning: One or more cite web templates have maintenance messages
Getting the warning "Script warning: One or more cite web templates have maintenance messages; messages may be hidden (help)" when editing and saving Hillel Day School. What does this warning mean and how to deal with it? Yamfri /ˈjæm.friː/ (talk) 05:25, 19 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Yamfri: Hi there! The (help) in the warning is a link that takes you to Help:CS1 errors, which explains what you can do to see the messages.  In this article, references #2 & 54 have a message stating "cite web: CS1 maint: unfit URL (link)", because they both contain unfit.  See Category:CS1 maint: unfit URL for more info. GoingBatty (talk) 06:11, 19 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks for help! I've changed those misapplied unfits to deads. Yamfri /ˈjæm.friː/ (talk) 12:42, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Citing IUCN References
Greetings, fellow editors.

I am a fairly new Wikipedia editor and my goal is to help make knowledge on Australian parrots and Proteaceae species (especially the threatened species) more accessible to the general public, as many people rely on this site for information.

I have been making edits to some articles and am currently in the process of adding the IUCN Red List statuses to multiple Proteaceae genera, including Grevillea and Hakea, as well as adding additional information such as on distribution and threats from reliable sources to these articles.

However, after reading other, highly rated Wikipedia articles for advice on how to write, as well as reading the recommended citations for IUCN Red List assessment pages, I have noticed I am not citing my IUCN references correctly. It appears I have missed a lot of key information, such as the DOI number and assessors.

Would anyone please help advise me on how to correctly cite IUCN references for Red List Assessments on Wikipedia species pages?

I have revised one of my IUCN references for my edits to Hakea pulvinifera to fit what I have seen in other articles, but I'm still not sure if it is correct. The revised reference looks like this:

Barker, W.; Keith, D. (2020). "Hakea pulvinifera". The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species: e.T113088579A113309795. doi:10.2305/IUCN.UK.2020-3.RLTS.T113088579A113309795.en. Retrieved 15 December 2023.

Whereas the old reference looks like this, and was written in website format instead of the recommended journal format

"Hakea pulvinifera". The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. 2020. Retrieved 14 December 2023.

I have also asked this question in the Template Talk:Cite IUCN page but decided to ask here as well in case there are people here who can help as well.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you. Lord.of.the.Proterozoic (talk) 09:42, 19 December 2023 (UTC)


 * You might be interested in Make cite IUCN, which should format the reference automatically using a bot. Tollens (talk) 10:38, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , I see your question has been answered at, but also that you've been editing using the Visual Editor. I just tried to add a cite iucn template in that editing interface, and tried to alter an existing citation to use that template, and could do neither. It's possible the desktop mode of the Visual Editor supports using specialised citation templates, but it's likely easier (and possibly necessary) to use the source editor for this. You can always drop into the source editor to create the proper citations, and switch back to the Visual Editor for general editing. Swapping editing interfaces more than once will cause the editor to edit the full page rather than a single section, just a heads up. Folly Mox (talk) 13:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I suspect that editors using that abomination that is ve can't create a template is because that template does not have any WP:TemplateData (another abomination).  I don't use ve so I am not qualified to add the necessary TemplateData but no doubt, there are others out there who are.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 15:19, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much everyone, I will use the method to go back and correct my previous errors, as well as add IUCN citations to additional articles. If I have any trouble with it, I will let you know here.  Lord.of.the.Proterozoic (talk) 02:03, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Sunflower business in our society
Sunco Oil manufactures three types of gasoline (gas 1,gas2, and gas3). The sales price per barrel of gasoline and the purchase price per barrel of crude oil are given in Table 10. Sunco can purchase up to 5000 barels of each type of crude oil daily and stop stealing our certificates. 105.255.154.222 (talk) 09:49, 19 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Pictogram voting delete.svg Please do your own homework. Welcome to the Wikipedia Help desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misevaluation, but it is our policy here not to do others' homework, but merely to aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn how to solve such problems. Please attempt to solve the problem yourself first. You can or . If you need help with a specific part of your homework, the Reference desk can help you grasp the concept.  Do not ask knowledge questions here, just those about using Wikipedia. Tollens (talk) 10:34, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Requests for Donation
As I already donate monthly I am irritated by the recents pop up requests for further donations! It makes me want to cancel my regular payments. My donations are very small but I am on a low income. 82.31.70.226 (talk) 10:19, 19 December 2023 (UTC)


 * You can prevent the banners from appearing by creating an account and then disabling the banners in your preferences, if you'd like. Tollens (talk) 10:31, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Welcome and thank you for your question about donations! To hide the fundraising banners, you can create an account and uncheck . The Wikimedia Foundation does not track the identity of IP addresses, so it doesn't know your age, income level or whether you donated in the past. None of the Wikipedia volunteer editors here who add and improve content in articles receive any financial benefit. We all simply contribute our time because we care about building a great encyclopedia for you and innumerable others around the world to use. If you cannot afford it, no one wants you to donate. Wikipedia is not at risk of shutting down, and the Wikimedia Foundation, which hosts the Wikipedia platform and is asking for these donations, is richer than ever. You are welcome to communicate directly with the donor-relations team by emailing [mailto:donate@wikimedia.org ].  Thank you! 57.140.16.1 (talk) 13:59, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Our culture is awash with advertisements – I'm sure you manage to ignore 99.9% of them. Just ignore these as well; one click on the 'X' removes them. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.205.111.170 (talk) 01:28, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

How to address an error on Wikipedia?
How can you address an error on Wikipedia?

There is an error in Wikipedia on the following page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lakes_of_Washington

The error states that "Silver Lake" in Whatcom County flows into the Snohomish River Watershed Basin.

This Lake actually flows into the Nisqually River Basin near the northern border of Washington State.

Thank you,

Kevin Conley Krconley2000 (talk) 14:49, 19 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Krconley2000: How do you know this actual fact? Which reliable source did you read it in? Bazza (talk) 14:52, 19 December 2023 (UTC)


 * You could edit List of lakes of Washington yourself, as it is not protected in any way, but it would need to pass WP:V. Alternatively, you could start a discussion at Talk:List of lakes of Washington.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 14:56, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Noting that the the source presently in the article fails verification, and I was able to source a Silver Lake (county not specified) draining into the Nisqually River Basin trivially, e.g. at here (page 15). Folly Mox (talk) 15:16, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * This seems intuitive, since just by looking at the articles Whatcom County, Washington and Snohomish River, the geographical overlap is zero. Folly Mox (talk) 15:23, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I checked the map. It's not the Snohomish, and it's not the Nisaqually. It's the Skagit. I changed it. -Arch dude (talk) 15:33, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Large-scale copyedit needed in category
I'm a fairly experienced editor, and I dabble in copyediting from time to time, but I spend most of my time on RCP. Recently, I've noticed that the vast majority of articles within the category Named passenger trains of India (approx. 500 pages) have multiple issues. It ranges from one or two grammar mistakes to outright incomprehensibility. Some of them also have few or no sources. I've run through the entire category with AWB, but that's only scratching the surface.

My question is as follows: Where would be the best place to post a request for this type of large-scale issue? Would it be on WikiProject India? WikiProject Trains? GCE? Any advice is appreciated. Catalyzzt (talk) 16:29, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd recommend bringing to venues other than the GOCE first to make sure those issues are addressed before attempting a copyedit. Copyedits are ideally the finishing touches to an article. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 20:15, 19 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Catalyzzt, Wikipedia is a volunteer project and editors work on tasks that interest them, so the question is who wants to work on articles about named passenger trains of India. You could ask at WP Trains and post a link at WP India, or vice versa. GCE accepts two requests at a time per editor, so they are unlikely to deal with 500 pages. I fear you would find other categories with similar problems if you looked for them. TSventon (talk) 20:16, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Catalyzzt: For those articles that you do not want to fix, there are several options, such as:
 * You could add the appropriate maintenance template(s) to each article, and then those visiting each article (or looking at reports such as the WikiProject Cleanup Listings) would see which articles have particular issues.
 * You could use the appropriate parameters of the WikiProject templates (e.g. WikiProject India supports attention if the article requires immediate attention (this should be used sparingly), WikiProject Trains supports unref and refimprove, they both have parameters to indicate if an infobox or image or map is needed)
 * You could create a post on the article talk page detailing what needs to be done (if the maintenance templates aren't detailed enough)
 * WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests per the suggestion above
 * Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 21:24, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

An article hasn't been updated in a long time and I feel deletion is warranted. How to proceed?
A page in my watchlist, Comparison of portable media players, popped up today in my feed.

Upon further examination and based on the fact that the page is out of date and (I think) beyond repair, I feel a deletion of the page is warranted.

I have Twinkle installed.

This is the first time I've done a deletion request.

Where do I go from here?

Thanks. Urbanracer34 (talk) 17:29, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yuck. In theory, "once notable, always notable" (WP:NTEMP), so since it has lots of reliable sources it should not be deleted. I suppose it may be useful to historians of technology. I reccommend you rename the page to Comparison of portable media players in 2010. -Arch dude (talk) 18:58, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * That sounds bad to me. Many articles aren't updated for years and then an interested editor comes by. See Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. "Comparison of portable media players in 2010" would discourage updating and give a false impression that it's part of a series. And Comparison of portable media players does have entries with release in 2011, 2012 and 2013. It's tagged with needs to be updated (November 2010). I would just leave it as is. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:21, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

I will leave it alone per what was said. Thanks! Urbanracer34 (talk) 19:46, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

trl/own or used right thumb nail
Bold 64.60.211.2 (talk) 18:13, 19 December 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, 64.60, but I haven't the slightest idea what you are asking. Please clarify. ColinFine (talk) 19:27, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

License inquiry
Can I upload an image shared under Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike? This is the image (I want to upload it for the Black Sea page, it's beautiful) https://www.worldhistory.org/image/18252/the-periplus-of-the-euxine-sea-c-130-ce/.  ♦ WikiUser70176 ♦ (My talk page) 18:37, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Images used by Wikipedia must be licensed in a way that allows reuse for any purpose, including commercial use. To use the image, it would need to be relicensed, or it would need to meet all of the WP:NFCC for non-free use.  RudolfRed (talk) 18:40, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you!  ♦ WikiUser70176 ♦ (My talk page) 18:42, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Trying to find a Wikipedia page that no longer comes up in search
I am trying to find a wikipedia page that was created years ago. However, when you search it, it no longer appears. It is for Jon Cutler (Wrestler) or John Cutler (Wrestler) and I am not sure who originally created it.

Again, it showed up for years in searches but now I can no longer find it. Would appreciate finding it or seeing how to have the wikipedia page active again. Joncutler (talk) 18:41, 19 December 2023 (UTC)


 * See Articles for deletion/Jon Cutler (wrestler). AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:44, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * John Cutler (wrestler) was deleted 5 years ago and Jon Cutler (wrestler) was deleted after an AFD here Articles for deletion/Jon Cutler (wrestler) Theroadislong (talk) 18:47, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

The original policy and the Korean version are different
The original policy and the Korean version are different. Is this officially allowed? Can the Korean version ignore the original version of the policy? Wonjin50 (talk) 19:34, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Please link any pages you refer to. This is your only edit at the English Wikipedia and we have millions of articles and other pages. If it's about a Wikipedia policy like No original research then each Wikipedia language makes their own policies. We have no influence over the Korean Wikipedia. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:41, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Wonjin50 Please clarify which Policy you mean.
 * Generally, though, each language version of Wikipedia is a separate project with its own set of rules, except for a few Policies that apply everywhere, including foundation:Terms of Use and foundation:Universal Code of Conduct. Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 19:42, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Worth pointing out,, is that even though the English Wikipedia is the oldest version and remains the largest, it is not the dominant or master language version, and other language versions are under no obligation to mirror English language policies and guidelines. Consider the German Wikipedia which was founded two months after the English Wikipedia, and has nearly three million articles. They have dramatically different policies and guidelines in many ways from the English Wikipedia, and nobody tries to reconcile things between the two, because each project is almost entirely autonomous. The same principle applies to the Korean Wikipedia, which has been around for 21 years. Cullen328 (talk) 08:05, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Commons category page title
This is a minor error, but I've been stumped trying to resolve the template preview error for on Alum. It doesn't like anything under Template:Commons category applies to this as far as I can tell, or at least with the different permutations of category I tried. The Alum category has plenty of photos; I can't make it more specific since it's a generalist term for a type of chemical. Is there anything else I should do? Noticing that it specifically leaves the category "category link is defined as the pagename", which is a little confusing. What needs to be fixed? Recon rabbit ( talk | edits ) 22:58, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think anything needs fixing here at Wikipedia. There is no preview error, only a preview warning which is deliberately omitted in the rendered page served to readers. Category:Commons category link is defined as the pagename is a hidden category which is also unseen by readers unless they have an account and have enabled "Show hidden categories" at Special:Preferences. Commons category-inline gets commons:Category:Alum compounds from . Maybe that should be changed to commons:Category:Alum but I don't know the chemistry. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:25, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I see, thank you! From my perspective it doesn't make much sense that commons:Category:Alum would be separated from commons:Category:Ammonium aluminum sulfate and the other 2 there. Either "alum compounds" shouldn't include Alum, or the subcategories inside Alum should be separated entirely since some are minerals, one is a city in Dresden, and I don't know what the rest is. Recon rabbit  ( talk | edits ) 03:11, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
 * JWBE changed commons:Category:Alum to commons:Category:Alum compounds in . PrimeHunter (talk) 16:51, 20 December 2023 (UTC)