Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 December 30

__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ = December 30 =

Gens
Hi, User:P Aculeius claims that the word "cognomen" doesn't go in italics, but it's established (100% sure) that it goes in italics (even his page, cognomen (always) writes this word in italics). Obviously I will not reverse his edit so as not to violate the edit war rule, but I'm right and cannot intervene because I would violate this rule. JackkBrown (talk) 00:31, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Have you tried discussing this issue with the editor on their talk page or the pages talk page? Paulpat99 (talk) 00:48, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I try, but I feel it will be completely useless. JackkBrown (talk) 00:51, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * See WP:WORDSASWORDS; 'cognomen' at Cognomen is about the word so italics is correct. MOS:FOREIGN does not apply because 'cognomen' is commonly used in English (I find it in my 1987 Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary on page 256).
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 00:57, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I concur with Trappist: although adopted from Latin, 'cognomen' has been used in English for over 200 years, according to the Oxford English Dictionary.
 * I can see why italicising it in the Gens article might seem like a good idea, since the article refers to Ancient Roman concepts (note; not Roman concepts that are ancient, but concepts in Ancient Rome, hence my capitalisation, but I digress) and uses other similar Latin terms that have not become adopted into English and which therefore are correctly in italics.
 * This is admittedly a difficult area since, historically, well-educated English persons were by definition taught Classical Latin and therefore were wont to use Latin words in English which sometimes are, and sometimes are not, considered to have fully entered the English language. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.205.111.170 (talk) 08:05, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Source links to unauthorized access
Hello. I don't know if this is the right place to ask, so if you have a more relevant area to ask this, please direct me there. Anyways, I've been editing articles, mostly about Missouri politics (such as Mel Carnahan). In editing them, I have used Newspapers.com for sources not through Wikipedia, but through the State Historical Society of Missouri. When I click on the links when I'm not logged in to Wiki, or on a different browser, it says "Unauthorized Access". I have no idea why this is, and I want to know if I'm doing something wrong and if so, how I would fix it. Since this issue probably appears in a few articles, I want to know how to fix the specific issue, hence why I asked here instead of on any article's talk page. Any help with this matter would be greatly appreciated, and again, do redirect me to where I may be better equipped to receive an answer if need be. Thank you. All the best. FountofInterestingInfo (talk) 01:45, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Because you are using the url  which requires a State Historical Society login.  Don't use those urls.  I  that you can simply delete the   portion of the url to make a url that anyone can use.  If not, you'll have to get the proper url from newspapers.com directly.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 01:55, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I tried removing the shsmo and that seemed to work. Thanks for your help! All the best. FountofInterestingInfo (talk) 02:23, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There's the makings of a Yiddish joke there, but I will forbear spelling it out. {The poster formerly knowna s 87.81.230.195} 90.205.111.170 (talk) 08:22, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Question about Template:Infobox radio show
In an edit on The Saint (radio program), someone changed "syndicates" in the infobox to "networks" with the accompanying edit summary "NBC, CBS, and Mutual were networks, not syndicates."

The statement in the summary is correct, but the problem is that the edit prevents the networks' names from appearing in the infobox. As I read Template:Infobox radio show, "networks" is not a valid parameter; "syndicates" seems to be the best-available parameter for listing networks. Should I change the parameter back to "syndicates" so that the value will appear in the infobox?

(I should add that I initially thought to post this on Template talk:Infobox radio show. However, the last two posts on that page are from August 2020 and May 2021, so I doubt that it would get a response there with such limited activity.) Eddie Blick (talk) 02:17, 30 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Teblick: Hi there! Feel free to revert the edit stating that you're doing so because you want the info to appear in the infobox, and then discuss on the article's talk page.  Just because no one has posted a question recently on the template's talk page doesn't mean that there aren't some editors watching the page who could answer your question.  Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 02:50, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, @GoingBatty. I will do that. Eddie Blick (talk) 03:00, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

What are different edit levels and user access levels provided on different number of edits to Wikipedia Contributors?
I am a new editor on Wikipedia with 25 edits or contributions. I want to motivate myself on this Wikipedia journey but I am unable to understand What kind of User Access and other Perks/benefits will I get on different numbers of edits like 100 edits, 500 edits, 1000 edits etc. ?

Can you please help me understand in simple way? Thank you and Happy New Year 2024. Yashrajkarthike (talk) 04:50, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * When you make 10 edits (and have had an account for four days), you become autoconfirmed and can create new articles and move pages. When you make 500 edits (and have had an account for a month), you become extended-confirmed and can, among other things, edit pages in contentions topics. There's nothing beyond that. Wikipedia is not a game and has no firm hierarchy - you should not try to boost your edit count for the sake of doing so or earning new rights - just edit when you feel something needs editing and all will work out nicely. * Pppery * it has begun...  05:05, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the helpful reply, I will certainly honor the Wikipedia guidelines. Yashrajkarthike (talk) 05:24, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * in addition, even if you don't have the required amount of edits, you may request edits on protected pages. the protection is there to prevent the page from being vandalized or edited disruptively, it isn't there to strictly prevent everyone below a certain threshold from editing the page. happy editing! &#128156; melecie   talk  - 05:25, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * thanks again and happy new year 2024 to all my friends of Wikipedia community. Happy editing to everyone!! Yashrajkarthike (talk) 05:28, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Yashrajkarthike It may be worth pointing out that long-term editors become entitled to sign up for The Wikipedia Library provided they have 500+ edits, 6+ months editing, 10+ edits in the last 30 days and no active blocks. This is not a perk but a useful way to access sources that would otherwise be difficult or expensive to reach and use these to further improve the encyclopaedia. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:38, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Michael D. Turnbull Thank you for this great information. Yashrajkarthike (talk) 14:46, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Some editors use Service awards and Service award progress. It's optional and doesn't give benefits but it may be a motivator for some. We have some elections with voter requirements. See e.g. 5-minute guide to ArbCom elections. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:04, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @PrimeHunter thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. Truly grateful to you. Happy new year 2024!! 202.142.104.8 (talk) 16:22, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * There's nothing beyond that. Further privileges do exist, but are not automatic.  I have been active since 2006 (I rank somewhere around #1955 in number of edits) and never sought administrator status, the big one; but twice now admins have seen fit to endow me with lesser privileges, one of which I have never used. —Tamfang (talk) 00:13, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

David Campese article
Hello. I have been making my way through David Campese's dense, over-linked, heavily quoted and generally overdone article for a while. I am now looking at the extensive reading list (print and online) and wondering - does it need to be there at all? I would appreciate an experienced opinion on this. It seems to me to be unnecessarily large - what should guide any cropping of it, please? BJCHK (talk) 06:51, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * BJCHK, I'll make a working assumption that the article is referenced properly via the "Notes". Then every one of the "References" -- whether "Printed", "Online", or "Other" -- should, I think, be pointed to by one or more of those "Notes". I'd idly guess that somebody much brighter and more energetic than I am has produced a little utility to check just this, but I don't know. (If nobody here pipes up to say that yes one exists or no it doesn't, I'd ask about it at Help talk:Citation Style 1.) Those that are pointed to need to be there. Any that aren't pointed to by one or more notes need not, and I'd delete them. (No comment on whether the body of the article, which I haven't even started to read, is dense, over-linked, heavily quoted or generally overdone.) -- Hoary (talk) 09:05, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It is indeed unusual for an athlete's article to go into so much detail about his matches. —Tamfang (talk) 00:29, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Draftify log
How do I setup my draftify userspace log? If I remember right, I clicked on 'not to create a log' initially when a prompt asked me to create one. Jeraxmoira (talk) 07:12, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe you are thinking of a Twinkle option for deletion nomination logs. You use User:MPGuy2824/MoveToDraft to draftify. User:MPGuy2824/MoveToDraft mentions a log. Can you see your log at Special:Draftify log/Jeraxmoira? The link only works if MoveToDraft is installed. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:53, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * PrimeHunter, I don't think my log is configured yet, but I've been using the MoveToDraft tool for a while now. Initially, I remember ticking an option to not create a log while draftifying. I will try reinstalling the tool to check if that prompt appears again to create the logs. Jeraxmoira (talk) 16:17, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * At Special:Draftify log/Jeraxmoira I see a log with 16 entries from 30 November to 30 December 2023 when I load the script in my browser console. Don't you see it or do you think there should be more entries? PrimeHunter (talk) 16:36, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I notice the logs on Special:Draftify log/Jeraxmoira too. I believe it should automatically log in my user space here -> User:Jeraxmoira/Draftify log. However, when I use the tool, an error (API Error?) occurs while logging the entry. I will try to replicate it now in my sandbox Jeraxmoira (talk) 16:47, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, I thought I could use the tool to move my userspace sandbox to draftspace but I guess the tool only works for mainspace articles. Jeraxmoira (talk) 16:52, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @PrimeHunter, I've just moved Minky (fabric) to draft. The initial browser popup asks, "Log draftification (at User:Jeraxmoira/Draftify_log) ?" When I press okay, it shows this error Jeraxmoira (talk) 17:29, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Appears to be a bug in the JSON object at User:MPGuy2824/MoveToDraft/core.js together with the send logic starting at line 956. I have made no attempt to debug, but AFAICS it should get fixed if one renames the "text" property at line 948 to "prependtext". Courtesy ping . Victor Schmidt (talk) 18:07, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't use the script and didn't know it has two places to show your logs. It's working for many others. Maybe the page has to already exist for the current version of the script. mw:API:Edit says for redirect-appendonly: "You have attempted to edit using the redirect-following mode, which must be used in conjunction with section=new, prependtext, or appendtext." PrimeHunter (talk) 18:39, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * From what I see/understand, should I try to create the page with some text and see happens when I move to draft another article? I also notice there is a '(first draftification)' in the edit summary during their first move, for all users who use this tool. Does this have anything to do with my situation? Jeraxmoira (talk) 19:38, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Looking into the JS again, it seems like that is the case. If the log page already exists different code paths are used which either have appendtext or section=new. Therefore,, that seems like a good idea. Victor Schmidt (talk) 21:06, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ping and for the debugging. I think you're right. I'll test it and report back here. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 02:45, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Your recommended change worked for a draftification i did on the test wikipedia. I've now updated the enwiki's version as well. since you've already seeded your draftify log page, you can continue as-is. But if you want to test the change then you'll have to tag the Draftify_log page with a WP:U1 and then wait for it to be deleted before trying another draftification. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 03:10, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Works fine, Thank you <3 Jeraxmoira (talk) 17:43, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Product designated British when in fact foreign owned and produced
HP is falsely described as British, when in fact, it is produced in the Netherlands and uses British icons in its marketing. How do I edit this so as not to be too "critical"? Robosks (talk) 08:49, 30 December 2023 (UTC)


 * The best place to discuss this is at the article talk page, Talk:HP Sauce. What usually matters is what independent reliable sources describe something as. 331dot (talk) 08:51, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * , HP sauce is produced by Heinz, an "American" company with worldwide investors. Is HP American, Dutch or British? Its history and marketing say British. I recently bought a new Toyota built in the US state of Georgia, that arrived here in California by transcontinental railroad rather than transoceanic ship. Is Toyota an American company or a Japanese company? Consider fish and chips. Potatoes originated in Peru. So, is fish and chips a British dish or a Peruvian dish? What the first sentence says about such matters is rarely worth quibbling about. It is more important that the body of the article accurately describes the history of the product, company or food. Cullen328 (talk) 09:13, 30 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Robosks, restart the moribund discussion at Talk:HP_Sauce. As 331dot suggests, cite reliable sources. In order to increase participation in the discussion, write a little advert for it at the foot of the talk page(s) of one or both of the WikiProjects whose templates appear at the top of Talk:HP_Sauce. -- Hoary (talk) 09:17, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

"Cut and paste move" explanation that's *not* WP:CUTPASTE
This is about Peranakans.

I'm involved (both in its "something I am participating in at the moment" and "something I must not use my admin permissions in") and have looked all over the place and haven't been able to find an explanation/definition of what a "cut and paste move" actually is, only how to fix them.

Could someone possibly locate that explanation?

Thank you! Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 09:33, 30 December 2023 (UTC)


 * this is when one removes the whole content of one article (blanking it or replacing it with a redirect) and pasting the whole content to another name, thus creating a new article with the same content. This "move" breaks the page history (which stays at the old location) and is, strictly speaking, a copyright violation. Ymblanter (talk) 09:41, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Best I can find is Help:How to move a page. WP:BEFOREMOVING goes into some more detail, but it's stuck in the middle of a section that's mostly off-topic. —Cryptic 09:45, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The example with regards to Peranakans imo, is when an editor copied the contents of the existing article over to a new title and then redirected the existing article to that new title. Bennv123 (talk) 09:48, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Uw-c&pmove explains the problem concisely. -- John of Reading (talk) 10:14, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Есть ли шансы на разблокировку моей учетной записи ?
Писал много раз так и не дождался разблокировки так как заблокировали по IP адерсу... даже уже не знаю что написать чтобы мне разблокировали мою учетную запись и сняли блокировку IP :( Большая просьба меня услышать и помочь мне в этой ситуации впредь обещаю больше такого не повторится я все осознал я не знаю как мне дальше быть... Mr Kloniks (talk) 11:27, 30 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Note: this user is banned on Russian Wikipedia and came here to ask for unblock. To @Mr Kloniks: (Это английская Википедия, во-первых, здесь надо писать на английском, во-вторых, о разблокировке проси на русской Википедии, а не тут).  Delta  space 42 (talk • contribs) 11:31, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: translation of OP:

 Is there any chance of unblocking my account I wrote many times and never waited for unblocking as I was blocked by IP aders[sic].... I don't even know what to say to unblock my account and remove the IP blocking :( Please listen to me and help me in this situation from now on I promise not to do it again I get it, I just don't know how to proceed.... Mr Kloniks (talk) 11:27, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * At ru-wiki, this editor is . Mathglot (talk) 10:09, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Edit button missing
I am a new account. I want to edit an article, read that there should be an edit button at the top of an article's page, but I cannot find it. I also read that I need permission; if yes, how do I get it? Genesch1 (talk) 16:40, 30 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Genesch1 If the article is protected, it depends on the level of WP:PROTECTION. Depending on what article you're talking about, WP:AUTOCONFIRM may be enough. Some articles, like those about the current Gaza-war need WP:XC. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:36, 30 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Genesch1: Your current user contributions show only one edit made, so there will be many articles that you cannot edit until you have acquired a more extensive track record on Wikipedia. See WP:RIGHTS for more detail on this.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 17:45, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * If you are unable to edit an article directly owing to its protection level, you should still be able to suggest edits via its Talk Page, where other editors watching the article should help. There is even a wizard to assist making this sort of request. Mike Turnbull (talk) 18:20, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Please give the exact title or URL of any page you want help with. Then we wouldn't have to speculate whether it's protected. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:42, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Raw page list from User contributions?
I can see a raw page list for my Watchlist but not for User contributions - is there such a thing and how can I access it? Sometimes I see the need to narrow down a list of my past contributions with search terms and use that in tools like AWB, but there's no apparent straightforward way to generate a flat list of those pages. Someone just asked in the AWB discussion if they could use it to work on pages they created, and I thought if a raw page list could be generated from a User contributions search that showed only such pages, that would be the workaround they could proceed with. Stefen Towers among the rest!  Gab • Gruntwerk 18:53, 30 December 2023 (UTC)


 * There's https://xtools.wmcloud.org/topedits/en.wikipedia.org/StefenTower/0, which may time out attempting to retrieve 53,317 rows. Folly Mox (talk) 19:18, 30 December 2023 (UTC) INS Must have been my connection, per Executed in 6.115 seconds INS 19:21, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that, but I'm basically looking for a filtered, raw list. The link you gave me shows everything I've contributed (sorted by activity but not filtered) and not in a raw format (see "Edit raw watchlist" in the Watchlist to see what I mean). Stefen Towers among the rest!   Gab • Gruntwerk 19:27, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, my apologies. Something like https://xtools.wmcloud.org/api/user/automated_edits/en.wikipedia/StefenTower/0?tool=AutoWikiBrowser might be closer to what you're looking for (filters for AWB edits), but it still returns a JSON object rather than a flat list of page titles. I'm not sure if there is any other tool that outputs just a list of page titles the way Special:EditWatchlist/raw does. JSON is easy enough to parse with regexes, and you could probably import it into a spreadsheet app and then create a new sheet using only the full_page_title column, but I think the exact thing you're looking for is going to require some postprocessing of output. Some of our more expert technical editors may have better information. Folly Mox (talk) 21:08, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm not interested in edits made only with AWB, per se, but for this case edits one can make with AWB later. It's really about building a raw list of pages one has created or otherwise edited before, using AWB or any other means. Anyway, what you've produced here is interesting and potentially useful, although I don't know how to import JSON to a spreadsheet. I could likely whittle it down with regex and text editing functions, though. For the time-being, I and another Wikipedian came up with two workarounds (so far) in AWB talk. I just wish this could be a lot easier. Stefen Towers among the rest!   Gab • Gruntwerk 22:53, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Fascism correction
Unfortunately. The definition of fascism is incorrect. You have it as. Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalistpolitical ideology and movement,characterized by a dictatorialleader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

fascism is a far left ideology. Without question. Any resistance to this definition is simply a far left. Push to blame the right. 96.252.56.132 (talk) 19:56, 30 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia bases article content on published reliable sources. Which, when it comes to discussions of Fascism, are available in great quantity, the best being academic historians, and political science specialists. Amongst such subject-matter experts, the consensus, based on clear historical evidence, is that Fascism is a far-right ideology is utterly overwhelming. Attempts amongst a few right-wing ideologues to push the blame for Fascism's excesses onto the left have no credibility whatsoever. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:02, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * See the red box on Talk:Fascism saying "Fascism is a right-wing ideology". In the mobile version, first click "Learn more about this page". PrimeHunter (talk) 20:05, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, an encyclopedia is not the place for historical denialism, but rather for information based on reliable sources. Just because some demagogues are using mass media to make a case for a novel way of looking at fascism, that doesn't make that novel way undo all the work done by historians over multiple decades. Stefen Towers among the rest!   Gab • Gruntwerk 00:01, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Revert and move on. Responding to stuff like this is never a good idea; best to just revert the drive-by bad-faith troll off. —Jéské Couriano v^&lowbar;^v  Source assessment notes 02:22, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

-Arch dude (talk) 04:35, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Faint image on talk page?
Why is there a faint image of some sort of a cat girl on my talk page? RemotelyInterested (talk) 21:01, 30 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Your talk page is empty and has had no images previously as well. Jeraxmoira (talk) 21:12, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * User:RemotelyInterested, is there a non-faint image of some sort of cat girl in any of your other tabs, apps, or device wallpaper? I know that on my device, when a screen is empty or almost empty, other things I have open are sometimes faintly visible, as if burned into the device display. I think this is a function of app opacity, but I haven't been able to find an option to configure it. For the record, I don't see any cat girls of any sort or transparency, when I load User talk:RemotelyInterested. Folly Mox (talk) 21:18, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

member access
I am having trouble signing in. My name is Joel Reaser. My user name is Drj1940. I have two email addresses - a gmail.com and msn.com. I don't know which I used for Wikipedia and don't remember my password. Can you help get me back on. BTW I have a small monthly contribution to you. Thanks. 2600:1700:326D:6010:144C:DDED:DB5E:5199 (talk) 22:48, 30 December 2023 (UTC)


 * You can request password reset for both emails, if you used one of them, then one of them should receive the link to reset the password.  Delta  space 42 (talk • contribs) 22:50, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * It's optional to give an email address and User:Drj1940 hasn't done it. Special:Contributions/Drj1940 only shows four test edits in 2010. If you don't know the password then just create another account. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:14, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

how do I permanently remove a page?
I want to remove a page at the request of the named person. Infomelonygriffith (talk) 23:49, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Infomelonygriffith: You'd have to submit a request at Articles for Deletion, but that's not likely to happen if reliable sources have been used to provide information. Please be aware that subjects do not own articles about them. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 23:55, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I gather that you represent Melony G. Griffith. Please read conflict of interest and paid editing As Sen. Griffith was a public official, the article about her will almost certainly not be removed as she is clearly a notable politician. If you have specific concerns about the article, please discuss them here, or on the article talk page. While your(and her) input is welcome, she has no more say than any other editor as to if the article about her exists, just as she could not prevent CNN or the New York Times from writing about her. 331dot (talk) 23:58, 30 December 2023 (UTC)