Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 January 1

__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ = January 1 =

"What links here" with templates excluded?
Is there a way to do a "What links here", with links from templates separated from links from the body of an article?

Specifically, I want to know how many links to Carols by Candlelight do NOT come from Template:Christmas, or any other template. Because I am thinking that Carols by Candlelight should refer to outdoor carols anywhere, not the specific event in Melbourne. Adpete (talk) 04:30, 1 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Not perfect, but should get you started: this search. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 04:38, 1 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I had to exclude two other templates like this:, and it gave me what I wanted. There are 97 links from articles, plus 3 from templates. Adpete (talk) 05:19, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * User:PrimeHunter/Source links.js says Source links on Carols by Candlelight with 143 results. It also shows pages which have both a source link and a template link. They are excluded for the named template if  is used. PrimeHunter (talk) 06:43, 1 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Adpete (talk) 07:03, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Meaning of 'subpr' in template
Hello, I have recently updated the name of a town at Template:Pas-de-Calais communes, but I noticed that the town I updated the name of has subpr next to it in the wikicode. What does this mean and do I need to change it? Thank you, Redtree21 (talk) 07:37, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It's displayed to readers so the meaning is supposed to also be explained to them but it's not. I clicked the links and saw the articles say they are Subprefectures in France so that must be it. I checked many other templates in Category:France commune (country subdivision) templates. All of them use the notation and none of them explain it. That's a mess. Maybe many French people can guess it but that's not good enough. I'm not French and didn't know the word. PrimeHunter (talk) 08:01, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for your reply. Looking at it now, I think you're right about the meaning of the notation. Its use in the template is very inconsistent and I'm not sure it adds much to the template given readers can find this information from the articles themselves. Thanks again, Redtree21 (talk) 08:08, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It was added by Markussep. In some other templates like Template:Vienne communes it was explained before via named groups but Markussep merged the groups and added the notation instead without an explanation. Something like this could be added but it should be the same for all templates using the notation:


 * belowclass = hlist
 * below =
 * pref: Prefecture
 * subpr: Subprefecture
 * PrimeHunter (talk) 08:21, 1 January 2023 (UTC)


 * That explanation below you suggested seems a good solution to me. Markussep Talk 08:49, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Setting a main 'external link' as reference in multiple places
I haven't found it in Citing sources: What's the proper procedure to set a main source shown in the "External links" as a specific reference for multiple assertions in the article? --KnightMove (talk) 08:15, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * If the citations don't need separate details like page numbers or different pages on a website then you can use Citing sources. Sources used inline must be shown in a references or similar section but if the website is important to the article then it can additionally be listed in the external links section. PrimeHunter (talk) 08:31, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. But I would assume there is also an established way to avoid the redundancy of setting the same link twice, as a reference and and an external link?! --KnightMove (talk) 08:35, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Advice regarding such duplication is at WP:ELDUP. - David Biddulph (talk) 09:06, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) The established way is to omit it from the external links section when it has been used as a source. See WP:ELDUP. But as mentioned, important links can be repeated. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:08, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * If it's used as a reference, it should be removed from the "external links" section entirely. The original purpose of the "external links" section in Wikipedia's early days was to have a place to collect unused references that could later be used to expand the article. An ideal article does not have an "external links" section. -Arch dude (talk) 17:11, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure? Could you please show me any example of such an "ideal article" among the featured articles? --KnightMove (talk) 18:36, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Not sure. However I just checked exactly one article: today's Featured article: Ai-Khanoum. No external links section. -Arch dude (talk) 05:19, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Why don't dinosaur species have their own pages?
It appears that all links to a dinosaur species in English route instead to the genus page. Why? RageWolf16 (talk) 09:15, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't edit in that area and don't know the background but the general rule is at WikiProject Dinosaurs. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:06, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Actor page
is there a template one can use to create a page for an actor Astoriapictures (talk) 13:06, 1 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello, Astoriapictures. The answer is no, not in the sense that you probably mean it. There is some guidance at MOS:BIO.
 * But the fact that a brand new account has the name of a production company (see your user talk page for some very important information about that) and is asking about a "template" to create a "page" for an actor, suggests to me that you have a number of (very common) misconceptions about Wikipedia.
 * Please understand that Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a business directory, publicity site, or social media. It constists of encyclopaedia articles (not "profiles" or "pages") that are neutrally written summaries of what independent reliable sources have published about a notable subject. Promotion of any kind is forbidden, and an article does not belong to its subject, is not controlled by its subject, may be edited by almost anybody in the world except the subject and their associates, and should be based almost entirely on what those independent sources have published about the subject, not on what the subject or their associates say or want to say. (See WP:PROUD)
 * It follows that successfully creating an article involves a lot of work that may not be apparently to the casual reader, in finding the necessary independent sources. That is why a "template" such as you are probably looking for would not be much help, because the layout only becomes relevant when much of the legwork has been done.
 * If, as I guess, you are wanting to create an article about one of your artists, this is what you will need to do (at a minimum)
 * Change your username, as explained on your user talk page
 * Make the mandatory declaration of yourself as a paid editor, on your user page.
 * Study your first article to get a sense of the magnitude of the task you are embarking on.
 * Study WP:NCREATIVE to understand the kinds of published source you require. If you cannot find them, or not enough of them, give up: any further effort you spend will be effort wasted.
 * If you have found adequate sources, create a draft using the articles for creation process.
 * Forget everything you know about your actor, and write the draft using only the independent sources you have found. Maintain a neutral point of view and avoid peacock language. Uncontroversial factual data like places and dates may come from non-independent published sources, but everything in the draft must come from a published source.
 * When you think your draft is ready, submit it for review. This may happen quickly, or may take several months. Most drafts by new editors are declined several times before they are brought to an acceptable level.
 * My usual advice to new editors wanting to create an article is to put the idea aside for a few months while they learn how Wikipedia works by making improvements to some of our six million existing articles. ColinFine (talk) 14:58, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Calculating distance
Hello. Do we have a template on Wikipedia where you put in two coordinates and it gives you a km/miles figure? As in, something you could use in geographical articles like showing the distance between a village to the nearest city. I could find the distances online using maps etc but I want to avoid adding unsourced info. Hope I was clear and that someone can help here. Semsûrî (talk) 17:07, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 17:11, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, this seems to be it! Thanks for the quick answer. Semsûrî (talk) 17:14, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, this seems to be it! Thanks for the quick answer. Semsûrî (talk) 17:14, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Make article
How do I make an article — Preceding unsigned comment added by JWH4409 (talk • contribs) 19:38, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Creating a new article is the most difficult task to attempt on Wikipedia. It is highly recommended that you first spend time editing existing articles, to get a feel for how Wikipedia works and what is expected of article content.
 * If you still want to attempt creating an article now, please use the new user tutorial, read Your First Article, and go to Articles for creation to create and submit a draft. 331dot (talk) 19:54, 1 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Start by picking a notable subject: see WP:N. If your subject is not notable, no amount of effort on your part will result in an article that can remain on Wikipedia and any attempt at such an article is a waste of your effort. We delete about 200 articles every day through several processes. If your subject is notable, Wikipedia can have an article on it and we can help you create it. -Arch dude (talk) 00:28, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Notability of 76ers-Bucks rivalry
I was wondering if making an article on the 76ers-Bucks rivalry would be notable enough and survive AFD. I had previously written an article on the Giannis-Harden rivalry but it however got deleted, and I don't want my hard work to be wasted again, so I want to make sure that this topic is notable enough and would survive AFD. Thanks. MasterMatt12(talk) 20:35, 1 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello, Matt. If you are interested in creating that article, then it is up to you to present the sources that will establish notability. ColinFine (talk) 21:55, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi I would also suggest that you keep WP:RECENTISM in mind as well. Historical rivalries are likely to be more acceptable subjects to try and create articles about because they most likely have received WP:SIGCOV over the years from some pretty reliable sources, whereas more recent rivalries might be more transitory and more about particular players than the teams themselves. These days lots of social media or TV sports personalities might declare something to be a rivalry simply based on their own opinion of things and none of that is really sufficient from a Wikipedia viewpoint. Maybe before you start creating any drafts for articles, you might want to ask for opinions at Wikipedia:WikiProject National Basketball Association. The members of that WikiProject might be able to help you assess whether an article like this meets WP:N. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:09, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Richard Monckton Milnes, 1st Baron Houghton
Ref number 5 is not well done - sorry - please fix if able. 175.38.42.62 (talk) 21:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Richard Monckton Milnes, 1st Baron Houghton
Sorry if I am repeating my request for assistance please...Ref number 5 is not well done - sorry - please fix if able. 175.38.42.62 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 07:01, 2 January 2023 (UTC)


 * It's a new year, so let's see whether you've learned how to read the help page. The word "help" in the error message is a wikilink, in this case to Help:CS1 errors. - David Biddulph (talk) 07:22, 2 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Thanks so much - I will leave it as it is I think, for better or worse - as they say!  175.38.42.62 (talk) 08:06, 2 January 2023 (UTC)