Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 July 5

__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ = July 5 =

Futives
futives real name is Daniel santos 216.221.198.26 (talk) 06:30, 5 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Could you please specify, what do you need help with? NotAGenious (talk) 07:08, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Link to an external audio file
So I'm working on Hal King (in particular Hal King), and I'd like to add this amazing audio clip. I feel I've seen external links to such files put in a box next to a section (rather than simply in an external links section), but I can't even figure out where to go looking for whatever template that probably is. Thanks for any help! Valereee (talk) 10:09, 5 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @Valereee I think the template you need is listen, with instructions at that link. The file itself has to go on Commons, with the usual copyright issues. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:31, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hm...I don't think it can go on commons, can it? Valereee (talk) 13:49, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The original YouTube clip seems to be at this URL. I can't see anything that would make this have a suitable license for Commons and it is probably a copvio even to link it as an external link. I presume the copyright lies with the original broadcasters, whoever they were in 1973. As usual, YouTube seems to care little about copyright. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:08, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it might be possibly fair use? Not an expert, but I assume definitely not fair use since it's only 50 years old. Oh though...what are the dates for 'published without a copyright statement' exceptions? I wonder if radio broadcasts made copyright statements in 1973? Valereee (talk) 14:14, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * That's my limit of knowledge reached! You need to contact the experts at c:Commons:Village_pump/Copyright, I think. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:24, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Lol, thanks! :D Yours surpasses mine; I can't even comprehend the various instructions. No idea what a .ogg file is. Valereee (talk) 14:40, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * FWIW, I found what I think is a link by the copyright holder so I've included it in the external links section. Valereee (talk) 15:31, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * That seems to be a good link but although I can see the text, it says that the access to the audio is not supported to my UK location. See Ogg for the file format Commons supports, if you are interested. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:36, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Dammit lol... Valereee (talk) 15:37, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, a copyright question! I will bite!
 * When it comes to restrictions on the use of files, there are three levels to consider:
 * is the file in the public domain, or licensed in a permissible manner that is compatible with licenses on Commons?
 * would using the file constitute fair use?
 * does the file meet all criteria at WP:NFCC?
 * If the answer to (1) is yes, you can upload it to Commons, otherwise, you cannot. If the answer to (1) is no, but the answers to (2) and (3) are yes, you can upload it locally to en-wp for use in articles. Otherwise, you cannot use it within Wikipedia (but you can link to external, non-copyvio-violating content hosts).
 * Starting with (1)... I haven’t gone through the links but assuming the speaker and broadcasters are all located in the US... The handy page for copyright rules is commons:Commons:Copyright rules by territory. In this case we go to Copyright_rules_by_territory/Consolidated_list_U, which admittedly is one of the worst rulesets. Here we learn that recordings fixed on or after February 15, 1972 are subject to the same copyright rules as other works, so a 1973 recording follows the standard rules. Assuming the recording has a copyright notice (which seems probable for a professional radio station), the rule is 95 years after first publication, which brings us to 2067. Hence, not public domain yet.
 * We move on to (2). Fair use is a US copyright doctrine which allows to use a copyrighted work without having the copyright holder’s agreement under a complicated balancing test. Age does not feature in that test, though "respect for commercial opportunities" does; most uses of news media older than a year or so would generally score favorably on that part of the test. However, almost any reasonable use of media on Wikipedia is fair use, because Wikipedia is an essentially non-profit (not entirely, the WMF sells CD versions, T-shirts etc.) with educational goals. It is extremely likely that a 50-year-old interview clip is fair use in the context of a Wikipedia article about the interviewee.
 * Onto (3). Although Wikipedia could allow lots of media under fair use, readers would not be able to reuse that media without checking that their own purpose is fair use. For that reason, en-Wikipedia intentionally restricts fair-use files, and some other language Wikipedias ban non-free files entirely. Here, I have some trouble believing an interview clip would meet WP:NFCC#8 (Contextual significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding.), but maybe you can argue otherwise.
 * Also, the file format is irrelevant. If something is not "free", then anything you create based on it is a copyright violation. Changing the file format from mp3 to ogg, doing some smart sound editing to remove background noise, increasing the pitch of the speaker for comical effect etc. does not allow you to upload the result on Commons. (The technical term is derivative work.) Tigraan Click here for my talk page ("private" contact) 16:17, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Tigraan, thanks! It is not public domain. It is IMO fair use. IMO it meets all NFCC (well, there is no image description page, as I haven't uploaded it yet and even then, it's not an image, though I assume there's a similar requirement for audio files.) Thanks re the post 1972 rules, I couldn't remember the exact dates but knew it was early 70s.
 * It's not an interview clip. It's a clip of the play-by-play of a notable home run. It's fabulous. You can actually hear it better on the YouTube link -- I think maybe they improved it? -- but even on the WLW (the copyright holder, I believe) it's still really very cool and illustrates the point made in the section, which is why I figured it might be fair use. Valereee (talk) 16:36, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Error message when saving updates
Hello, i keep getting error messages when trying to update my firm's page. Can someone help? RClarkeBoult (talk) 10:36, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Well it's a bit hard to help you, you've only made one edit on this account, the one above. There is not "my firm's page", there may be a Wikipedia article about your firm.  Neither you nor your firm have any special rights or ownership of any such article.  What appears in it must in general be sourced from independent sources.  If you work for the firm, then there are some restrictions you should and must observe.  First, you MUST make a declaration in line with WP:PAID.  Next, you should review and follow WP:COI, in particular please note that you should make requests for edits on the articles talk page rather than doing them yourself. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 10:43, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Martin, thanks for replying.
 * Who do i make the requests for edits to the page? It's just a few simple changes to office locations/ management etc.
 * How do i make a declaration with WP:PAID? RClarkeBoult (talk) 11:31, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @RClarkeBoult The instructions for making the paid declaration are given at the link WP:PAID already mentioned. Basically, you add a template on your user page, which you need to edit by clicking on your account name (currently a redlink as you have nothing there yet). There is a wizard you can use to make edit requests on the Talk Page of an article: see WP:ERW. Do the declaration first, as that's mandatory under Wikipedia's terms and conditions. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:17, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I've posted instructions and information on your user talk page as well. I would note it is not "your firm's page", but an article about your firm. 331dot (talk) 13:19, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

WP-sandbox talkpage issue
Yesterday I went to WP:sandbox and thought I spotted a small problem there. So I typed it out on the talkpage. (I specifically checked if I was at the right place since I wasn't sure if "the rules" for WP-talk were the same as for regular talkpages). Earlier today I checked to see if there was a response and found out a bot deleted my edit after (exactly) 2 hours, like it would on the project page itself. So now I bring 2 things to your attention. The original 1 that I won't repeat here but that you can see when viewing history. And the bot automatically blanking the talkpage. Dutchy45 (talk) 10:38, 5 July 2023 (UTC)


 * this was their post:
 * hi @Dutchy45!
 * Wikipedia talk:Sandbox is intended to be blanked regularly like the main sandbox as it is indeed intended to be used as a sandbox. Wikipedia talk:About the sandbox is where sandbox discussion takes place.
 * I'm assuming the message refers to the "edit" and "edit source" tabs/flaps at the top of the page, which does appear but only if your preferences are set to "show both editor tabs". as Sandbox only works with source editor for some technical reason, I'm not sure why it displays "edit with VisualEditor" (except for it being a template message). as for whether it should stay, I'm also unsure if that is the default for new users (I have had it always set to "Always give me the source editor"), and I believe that the full text may still be useful elsewhere (at least for Draft:Sandbox and other sandboxes).
 * happy editing! &#128156; melecie   talk  - 11:17, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks Melecie. Dutchy45 (talk) 13:37, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks Melecie. Dutchy45 (talk) 13:37, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Content translator
I'm trying to use content traslator from Catalan to English. Unfortunately, I can't do it even if I have more than 500 edits in en.wiki and have everything selected in the beta features of my user.

Why does it happen? TaronjaSatsuma (talk) 11:26, 5 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @TaronjaSatsuma. I assume you have read all the instructions at WP:CX and if you are still having problems, you should probably post your query at WP:VPT as that's where all the software experts hang out. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:23, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * What goes wrong when you try to use Special:ContentTranslation? PrimeHunter (talk) 13:36, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks @Michael D. Turnbull@PrimeHunter for your replies.
 * I read the page, and checked my edits, my status as extended confirmed, and my preferences. Apparently, I did everything as it should be done.
 * What happens to me is that when I go to translate a page, as I normally do from English into a different language, when I try to translate from Catalan to English, what I get is a warning of "you can't use this" ans when I click, it does not translate, but the page remains in Catalan. TaronjaSatsuma (talk) 13:41, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @TaronjaSatsuma, if you're trying to use the machine translation part of the tool, it won't work - that has been disabled for all users (per this). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:02, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * All users? it's crazy. TaronjaSatsuma (talk) 14:38, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @TaronjaSatsuma, it's been disabled here on the English Wikipedia. Other Wikipedias use it. Valereee (talk) 14:42, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Doesn't that link say that extended confirmed users can use it? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:43, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It's a little confusing. It says that at first, and then seems to take it back. Valereee (talk) 14:46, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's really confusing. Also, in the Content Translation tool it says extended confirmed users can use it.
 * It's been 8 years since that voting, Content Translation works actually really well. TaronjaSatsuma (talk) 14:53, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell from the outside, the Content Translation tool has several parts; one of those parts is a machine translation plugin, and that's the part disabled here, while the other parts still work. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:00, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @TaronjaSatsuma As an aside, I had the need to translate Catalan to English recently and found that Google translate works very well, although of course it isn't integrated into Wikipedia editing, so you have to do it separately. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:56, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Just to be clear: Catalan to English is not integrated into Wikipedia because of the voting, isn't it? I mean, is not a technical issue, but a community decision?
 * Because English to Catalan works. TaronjaSatsuma (talk) 15:27, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * That is my understanding, yes. Valereee (talk) 15:30, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks like there was a rather massive discussion at WP:AN. A new proposal could be raised (at WP:VPP?) if someone wanted to take that on. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:32, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Contacting administrator
I have a page that may be removed and need to contact someone that can help. Thank you, Ray Lane Raymondeugenelane (talk) 15:52, 5 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @Raymondeugenelane Is this about Talk:Laxmaiah Manchikanti? If so I have replied to your message there; but more information is needed about why you think it "may" need to be removed and what, if any, other issues and problems you are having. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 15:57, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The page I would like to move relates to Virginia Lee Montgomery, a visual artist. She has recently dropped her middle name and now goes by Virginia L. Montgomery.  I am trying to edit the title of the Wikipedia page for Virginia L. Montgomery. It is my understanding that to make a change to the title the page must be moved.  Can you help? MSmith77024 (talk) 16:59, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * My apology. I posted my question on the wrong thread. --Mary MSmith77024 (talk) 17:02, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Moving a page to rename it
I would like to rename a Wikipedia page. The artist, who is the subject of the entry, has dropped her middle name and now simply uses her middle initial. I can provide a reference, if need be, to prove this change of name. When I have tried to move the Wikipedia page to rename it, I am not presented with the "move" option in the drop down menu. Can someone help me? Many thanks! --Mar MSmith77024 (talk) 16:57, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * , Wikipedia policy is to title an article according to the name usually used in reliable published sources. The sources cited in that article mostly call her "Virginia Lee Montgomery". Maproom (talk) 17:39, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * What matters is what most reliable sources use as her name, see WP:COMMONNAME. We don't necessarily use official or legal names. Example, Bill Clinton, not William Jefferson Clinton(a redirect). 331dot (talk) 17:41, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Might WP:BLPKIND apply here? This doesn't seem like a contentious update or attempt to avoid scrutiny. Obviously if the name change is recent, existing sources will use the outdated name. If Mary is able to provide an appropriate source, wouldn't WP:AGEMATTERS apply? I'm reminded of an incident a few years back where a recently divorced BLP subject had to secure a TV interview specifically to comply with our policies before we'd change how we named her in the relevant articles. Folly Mox (talk) 20:29, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * See also WP:SPNC &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 21:21, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Presently, Virginia L. Montgomery has work exhibited at the Blanton Museum in Austin. The Blanton has artist's bio which demonstrates that Virginia is using Virginia L. Montgomery and not Virginia Lee Montgomery.   Please see, https://blantonmuseum.org/exhibition/day-jobs/artist-audio-vlm/     Also, please look at the New York Times March 8, 2023 interview of Virginia L. Montgomery.  The name used is Virginia L. Montgomery.  https://blantonmuseum.org/exhibition/day-jobs/artist-audio-vlm/
 * In sum, Virginia L. Montgomery is the artist's current and preferred name. How does one edit the title to reflect her preferred name? MSmith77024 (talk) 14:16, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/08/arts/design/artist-job-blanton-museum.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
 * My apology. I pasted the Blanton link twice and not the Times' link.  Above, I pasted a link to the New York Times article with a reference to Virginia L. Montgomery. --Mary MSmith77024 (talk) 14:19, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * For another reference, please look at the artist's personal webpage. She uses Virginia L. Montgomery.  https://hellovlm.com/ MSmith77024 (talk) 14:22, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * In addition to the Blanton Museum and NY Times citations to Virginia L. Montgomery, here are other references to a media source, The Smithsonian Magazine, and current and upcoming museum events:
 * Smithsonian Magazine, March 10, 2023
 * https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/day-jobs-blanton-museum-180981757/
 * Women & Their Work, Austin, TX, USA
 * https://womenandtheirwork.org/upcoming/vlm-virginia-l-montgomery/
 * Tel Aviv Museum, Tel Aviv, Israel
 * https://www.cca.org.il/exhibition/substrate
 * YouTube Interview c/o The Blanton Museum, Austin, TX, USA
 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buxxhzZFaFQ MSmith77024 (talk) 15:01, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Of note, I am planning on editing the artist's wikipedia page to add her recent exhibitions and the media references, but I started this editing venture by attempting to her update her name to reflect how it is actually used.
 * Additional edits will be forthcoming! --Mary MSmith77024 (talk) 15:19, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅, I have moved the article as requested. However, if there is any opposition to the move, a WP:Move request will be required. Particularly relevant to the article in question is WP:Naming conventions (people). &#8212;CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • {C•X}) 16:45, 6 July 2023 (UTC)