Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 July 6

__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ = July 6 =

Edward Taylor (music writer)
I have added. a file of Edward Taylor which is not centred, and perhaps the writing could be removed. I cannot do this - please fix if you are able. Please make the file of the "royal" man  below the new file smaller than that of Edward Taylor. Thanks 2405:6E00:2EF4:BF00:F5CF:3180:6912:ABA6 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 00:47, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The file you describe was uploaded by, and it's odd. Srbernadette failed to remove either the margin that makes the image look lopsided (when not printed as intended) or the text, which presumably is conventionally ("all rights reserved") copyright. Srbernadette wrote that the "author" was unknown, but that "This file is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International license." I don't know how that would be possible. Anyway, I cropped the image and increased its tonal range -- tasks that GIMP (which works on just about any computer and is free of charge) makes very easy -- and the resulting Edward Taylor (music writer) doesn't look bad. -- Hoary (talk) 08:18, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

When I am replying and add new text, it appears at the front of a sentence
Say I am replying to you, I hit [reply] then start typing in a reply over several paragraphs.

Repeatedly, as I go to add new text in a sentence it will not appear at the end of the sentence, but at the beginning! E.g., I write "First, I would like to" then add the word "reference" and it appears as "referenceFirst, I would like to".

Does anyone know why this happens or how to fix it?

I'm using the Chrome browser, if it matters. Veritas Aeterna (talk) 01:11, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The initial placement of the cursor in an edit box is controlled by the browser. Your browser (your browser version on your OS on your computer) Seems to be placing the cursor in the "wrong" place. What happens in non-Wikipedia edit boxes supplied by other Web pages? If you feel that Wikipedia is not doing as well as other web pages, you might try raising this issue at WP:VPT, since I think it's too technical for this general-purpose help desk. -Arch dude (talk) 02:01, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Similar issues have been reported at WP:VPT in the past, @Veritas Aeterna. If you ask over there, they might be able to point you to a solution or at least a phabricator ticket on the issue. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:04, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I will try WP:VPT. Editing in non-response areas, such as adding or modifying an article works fine and I do not see that problem. Veritas Aeterna (talk) 18:47, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Can't revert edit due to blacklist?
Our article at Donovan is being vandalized, but I can't revert the edits because apparently the proper text contains a link on the blacklist. The changes are enormous so it will be very tricky to figure out what's broken. I assume someone will be able to fix it, but I'm curious as to how this state of affairs arose. I'm trying to revert back to an edit that's only a few hours old, but it's not being accepted? What's changed in the last few hours? Matt Deres (talk) 01:58, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * So, I figured out how to revert the changes, but the main question still stands - why was ClueBot allowed to revert an edit that I was not? Matt Deres (talk) 02:02, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * @Matt Deres bots have the  user right, allowing them to bypass the spam blacklist. Victor Schmidt mobil (talk) 08:32, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The WP:Rollback tool that ClueBot (and some others) use ignored the spam blacklist. Other forms of reverting respect it. * Pppery * it has begun... 02:06, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Michigan Women's Music Festival talk page and Dana Rivers
not sure I'm doing this right but seeking "consensus" on whether convicted American mass murderer Dana Rivers may or may not be mentioned as a protestor in the protest discussion about the festival. See Michigan Womyn's Music Festival talk page. Bhdshoes2 (talk) 02:11, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The best places to discuss changes to articles are generally their corresponding talk pages; so, Talk:Michigan Womyn's Music Festival would the best place to discuss this. You have essentially two options when it comes to something like this: (1) WP:BOLD (2) WP:CAUTIOUS. You can be bold and make the edit you want to make if you genuinely believe it to be an improvement, and there are otherwise no technical restrictions in place that stop you from directly editing the article. Just makes sure you leave an edit summary clearly explaining why you've made the edit for the others to reference. If your edit sticks and no one undoes it, you can assume WP:SILENCE until someone does. If someone undoes the edit, you then should try to follow WP:BRD and engage that person and others in article talk page discussion per WP:DR. The other option is basically skipping the "bold" step and going straight to the article's talk page to seek feedback. This approach tends to work better when the content you want to add is likely going to be considered highly contentious (e.g. previous attempts to add it were rebuffed) or it's highly visible article that has lots of people working on it or otherwise attracts lots of attention. Regardless of whether you're bold or cautious, you should be prepared to justify the reasons why you feel the edit is needed in terms of relevant Wikipedia policies and guidelines. If you say nothing or give a pretty lame reason, there's a chance the edit could be mistaken for vandalism or some other form of disruption, and simply undone on that basis. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:35, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * In this case, there is a discussion at Talk:Michigan Womyn's Music Festival. Given that this is contentious content about a living person, consensus should be established there before editing the article.  Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 13:44, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * thanks for all the replies. How do you know if there is a consensus on the talk page? One person says the fact should not be added and two people say it should. Bhdshoes2 (talk) 15:06, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Involved comment. You could request a closure of the discussion at WP:CR, as it's not an RfC it would go into the other types of closing request section. However given the nature of what is being discussed I would suggest waiting until the discussion at RSN on one of the sources is resolved, as that will impact on the consensus read.
 * You could also make a RfC, those tend to draw in more editor attention and are a good way to establish a broader consensus. I would strongly suggest that you read the instructions carefully there, especially with regards to WP:RFCBRIEF before launching a discussion. I would be happy to help draft a question and format at the article's talk page should you wish to do this. Sideswipe9th (talk) 15:14, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Problem description
The text preview, appearing in a tooltip when the mouse hovers over an internal link, doesn't disappear once the mouse moves away. The user has to make the mouse hover around the preview tooltip again, sometimes multiple times and long enough for it to register the change and finally close.

These previews tend to open accidentally when moving the mouse on the page, probably because the opening delay is too small or inconsistent. As a result, I often see tooltips appearing randomly and remaining stuck on the page, even though I didn't want them to appear in the first place.

This bug that has been around for months, which is strange since tooltips are a well-known and simple designs.

I had to disable previews because of these problems.

Environment
I'm using the latest version of Chrome, Version 114.0.5735.199 (Official Build) (64-bit), on Windows 10 x64. It's a recent system and the problem happens all the time, even when there is nothing else running, so it's not a performance issue. The network connection is fine: 50 Mbps, 10 ms ping. 2A02:A03F:C0B9:7C00:605C:11EA:66C4:F083 (talk) 09:13, 6 July 2023 (UTC)


 * This Help Desk is for problems with the mechanics of editing. Few people who know much about the internals of the sofware hang out here: you'd do better to ask at WP:VPT. ColinFine (talk) 15:01, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Charles Wells (gambler)
I'm the author of a biography of Wells (Title: 'The Man who broke the Bank at Monte Carlo') My book is cited as a source of information in his Wikipedia entry. The original hard-back book was released in 2016 and is now out of print. A revised paperback version will be released shortly. To assist readers / researchers, is it in order for me to delete the ISBN code for the obsolete hardback edition and replace it with the code for the new paperback? Regards, Robin Quinn78.151.192.147 (talk) 10:36, 6 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Robin: Not really. Any Wikipedia citation needs to be based on where the editor adding the information actually found it, which obviously can't be from a book edition that isn't yet published. Also, there is no guarantee that items like page numbers and precise content would be the same (even if in this case they are). Furthermore, you have a conflict of interest regarding the book, so I'd advise you to let others make the change, which is quite likely when someone else notices your new edition has appeared. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:20, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you Mike. Sounds like excellent advice. 78.151.192.147 (talk) 16:40, 6 July 2023 (UTC)


 * It is still possible to buy the 2016 hardback edition. When the new edition is available, the article could give the ISBN.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 11:25, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * And rumour has it that there are also buildings where you can read and borrow books that have been out of print for years. - X201 (talk) 11:28, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Making changes that are not necessary with harassment
AMtoxy

is trying to make changes added two names to Roberto McCausland

ans while doing so he’s harassing and threatening to have myself banned.

I have worked with Roberto McCausland for over 5 years on this and other things.

these changes I made are acceptable and talked about with Roberto.

AMtoxy needs to stop and  be looked into as he could be destroying all the hard work that was put into Wikipedia so far

Deanna Coakley (talk) 10:47, 6 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @Deanna Coakley Your comment I have worked with Roberto McCausland for over 5 years suggests that you know Roberto McCausland Dieppa personally and in Wikipedia terms this means you have a conflict of interest when making edits to that article and to Sinfonia Latina, which is the other article in your contribution history to which you have made many edits. No-one owns a Wikipedia article and we want them to be written solely based on information in reliable sources, not material you happen to know based on things "talked about with Roberto". I haven't investigated the details of the changes which you and the other editor have been making but would point out that disagreements need to be worked through on the Talk Page of the relevant article, in line with our usual processes. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:09, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. 47.203.201.223 (talk) 11:30, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

How do I suggest GIFs instead of images?
Instead of a photo, I want to put a GIF of a person instead. I feel like it is more modern and gives a more human feel to someone rather than an image. NotQualified (talk) 11:08, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * GIF is an image format and often used for photos. Please clarify what you want. Do you mean an animated GIF, a drawing, or something else? PrimeHunter (talk) 11:21, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Wait, could you link a wiki where a GIF is used? — Preceding unsigned comment added by NotQualified (talk • contribs) 17:13, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * There are thousands of gif files used on Wikipedia. Here is a search for them. Photos can be stored in gif files, although jpg is more commonly used for photos. CodeTalker (talk) 18:25, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * For a specific example, Moustapha Akkad displays File:Moustapha Akkad.gif. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:26, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

How to make a version of a template with parameters set by default?
I am trying to make a version of Template:Convert except with mostly default arguments, similar to Template:Cvt.

I basically want to make a template 'cvt area' that sets

{cvt area|2.0}

to be the same as

{convert|2.0|km2|sqmi|abbr=values|sortable=on}

but for the life of me I cannot find any documentation in plain English on how to do this. Has a minimal example been posted anywhere? Thanks. Wizmut (talk) 12:07, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Is Help:Template any use? - X201 (talk) 13:53, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The specific case I need isn't discussed (making a different version of a template with default parameters). It must be so obvious that nobody has spelled it out, but any variation that I actually try gives the same error:
 * Error in convert: Needs name of unit
 * The name of unit is the unnamed second parameter, which I want to set to km2. None of these work (using s instead of {}s so I can type it here).
 * (((2|km2))), 2=(((2|km2))), 2=km2, km2, "km2", 2="km2", (((2|"km2")))
 * The template will gladly accept a manual entry of km2 but gives an error if I leave it off when I actually go to use it. Wizmut (talk) 14:15, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Why don't you just prefill  and   of  like this:
 * I think that you should find a better name for because there are more than   and   kinds of areas.  And, I gotta wonder, is this new template really needed?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:32, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The point is to make some articles with many hundreds of uses of convert a lot easier to edit, proofread, etc. For example, List of countries and dependencies by area. Most of the table text is templates.
 * But my question isn't about whether I had a good idea for a template. I wanted to know why it wouldn't work. Wizmut (talk) 14:39, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Apparently because Module:Convert was not written to take positional parameters from the  (in Lua-speak, the frame):
 * The module fetches the template's positional parameters from the parent frame so prefilling  and   in the   are ignored.
 * Module:Convert is very complex. If you want to do other than what I have suggested, you should raise the issue at Template talk:Convert.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 15:10, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, will do. I'll also reconsider the name. Wizmut (talk) 15:16, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Module:Convert is very complex. If you want to do other than what I have suggested, you should raise the issue at Template talk:Convert.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 15:10, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, will do. I'll also reconsider the name. Wizmut (talk) 15:16, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Can an editor be penalized for for insulting another?
At, editor Twillisjr insulted editor VenusFeuerFalle, who deleted his reference to the Gospel of Bartholomew, providing a reasonable rationale for doing so. Twillisjr responded "Children delete, adults improve . . ." Can some administrative action be taken to penalize Twillisjr for his insulting tone? This kind of thing has no place on a talk page. —  Peter Brown (talk) 18:53, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, . The relevant policy is Civility. I have informed the editor of the policy on their talk page. Let me know if the problem persists. Cullen328 (talk) 19:56, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * As you may have noted, Twillisjr reverted your note 30 minutes after you posted it and has not modified . The only change to the latter section is a well-written reproof by Jenhawk777 along the same lines as my complaint. Jenhawk777 also complained at  that Twillisjr had rearranged $her?⁄his?$ talk page without permission. — Peter Brown (talk) 14:19, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * , editors are permitted to remove such messages from their talk pages, and doing so indicates that they have read the message. I hope that this editor has taken my message seriously. Cullen328 (talk) 17:32, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Uploading a logo
Hello. I am trying to upload the logo to the The Twentieth Century Society page, in the same way as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_England, for example.

I had a stab at uploading the png but (unsurprisingly) got it wrong; I'm a relative newcomer to this element of Wikipedia, and would appreciate any guidance about how I should go about it. I find the legal-speak rather overwhelming.

Thank you for any help on this BJCHK (talk) 20:32, 6 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @BJCHK: Hi there!
 * Go to their web site and download their logo to your computer.
 * Go to the File Upload Wizard and click on the "Upload a non-free file" button, and follow the steps to upload the logo.
 * Edit The Twentieth Century Society article and add the Wikipedia file name into the image parameter of the infobox.
 * Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 21:10, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Ethnographic field recording from 1967—fair use?
I want to write an article on akazehe. One of the few extant recordings of this is from Ocara's 1967 compitalion "Musique du Burundi". Would a 12-second clip of the recording from that release be fair use for the article? There are no free recordings. Isthistwisted (talk) 21:29, 6 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @isthistwisted: only if it meets the 10 non-free content criteria. lettherebedarklight晚安 02:29, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Spash or pash lebowa or leboa
It is a south Africa slang word used to identify a vagina or a women's private part 41.150.249.36 (talk) 22:31, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Perhaps this is better suited to Wictionary or Urban Dictionary. Cullen328 (talk) 23:14, 6 July 2023 (UTC)