Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 June 12

__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ = June 12 =

Using "Infobox book series" for an encyclopedia
On the Historical Dictionary of Switzerland article its using an infobox website, which seems odd for an encyclopedia. It does have a webste but its published in book form. Would it be normal to use book series infobox for an encyclopedia and perhaps tack on the website? They're doesn't seem to be infobox for encyclopedias.  scope_creep Talk  00:19, 12 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @Scope creep: Hi there! The best place to ask this question would be the article's talk page: Talk:Historical Dictionary of Switzerland.  If you don't receive any response after a few days, you could also post on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Books inviting them to the article's talk page.  Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 01:06, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi I'll try the wikiproject. I didn't even know about that project and it seems quite active. I doubt anybody would comment on the talk article. The article has been missing and been close to death for years with no input. Good call on the project page.    scope_creep Talk  08:01, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

I had a Wiki and it has been taken down
Hi My name is Mike Fasano and I am an american rock drummer and had a wiki presence a few years ago my name went from a clickable blue link to a red name and now unclickable black with no link ti me. I have been in the music business professionally for 30 years. I am not clickable to the many links and situations i have been involved in my career. What happened? What can I do to become viewable on wiki again? TheMikeFasano (talk) 00:46, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * You didn't "have a wiki", Wikipedia had an article about you. A wiki is a type of entire website of which Wikipedia is one example; this website is composed of articles.
 * I assume you are not Mike Fasano the Florida public official. It appears the article about you was deleted as a proposed deletion and later the one about the public official was created. 331dot (talk) 00:58, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @331dot: Maybe the article about the drummer was deleted in January 2020 for having no reliable sources, and then the article about the politician was moved in April 2020? GoingBatty (talk) 01:01, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello Mike. I'm assuming you're the Mike Fasano from Warrant? According to the deletion log, it was deleted because there were no reliable sources present in the article. You can read about Wikipedia's notability guidelines for musicians here, but essentially a member of a band must be notable either of their own accord (i.e. not just as a member of the band) or be a member of more than one notable band. I don't know whether you fit these criteria, but if you can provide independent, reliable sources that demonstrate your notability per our guidelines, then your article could be (re)created. (You don't have to be the one to provide the sources, but there's of course no guarantee anyone else will do it - we're all volunteers.)  WP scatter  t/c 00:59, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi! Thanks so much for the reply and yes I am the drummer not the politician, as my so called career history goes I was actually the 7th, 9th and 11th drummer of the 80's hair metal band Warrant. lol It's a bit humor I share with my being in and out of the band a few times 20+ years ago. I am now currently the recording and touring member of the band Tiger Army. I guess my documented articles, press, interviews etc... aka affiliation with the many nationally knows acts and records I have worked on or worked with over the years have just vanished to to my lack of acknowledgement on Wiki platform which seems to be the main source that people go to when looking up a person biography in a professional career. I will continue to try to figure this all out. I do appreciate you getting me this information and your dedication as a volunteer to helping field questions like mine helping me understand the process and criteria with my situation. TheMikeFasano (talk) 16:03, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Given your membership in both Warrant and Tiger Army, it appears to me that your article was deleted by an overly eager editor and based on a cursory search for sources you do, in fact, meet the notability guidelines. (Disclaimer, I could be wrong!) Unfortunately I don't think there's a way to recover the old article, but the sources are still out there so one can be written again. I'll probably work on this myself soon. Thanks for bringing this to our attention!  WP scatter  t/c 17:21, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Please see Requests for undeletion for how to retrieve a copy of the article, so it can be worked on by adding references etc. - Arjayay (talk) 17:27, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the link. Will that still work if the deleted article has since been created? Mike Fasano is now an article about a politician, but that's the title of the old article about the musician as well.  WP scatter  t/c 17:30, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * If you were/are in more than one notable band, that may make him individually notable, but to be frank we are only concerned with you meeting our guidelines, not on how the presence or lack thereof of an article affects your career. 331dot (talk) 17:35, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Help on DAB
On Fireworks (disambiguation), I added the entry. However, I don't know which of the Japanese title "Uchiage Hanabi" and the English title "Fireworks" would be more recognizable (per MOS:DABENTRY). Which would be the preferred display title? Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 02:31, 12 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Sungodtemple, the article is titled Uchiage Hanabi. Avoid piping in disambiguation pages; therefore perhaps:
 * Uchiage Hanabi ("Fireworks", Daoko and Kenshi Yonezu, 2017)
 * -- Hoary (talk) 04:35, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

source
the source of Geno, Anthony 2009 Black Soldiers of New York State does not seem to exist nor does the 9781441603807 Isbn 2600:8805:270F:3C00:6466:32D4:4E92:37F9 (talk) 02:40, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I found the isbn in Google Search, it is showing the author's name as Anthony Gero (r instead of n)   RudolfRed (talk) 03:16, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

How can I publish my sandbox page?
What is the best way to have my sandbox article checked and published? How do I add a title? Sophiev22 (talk) 04:36, 12 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Before anything else, your draft needs sources. Please see WP:REFSTART for help with tis. Formatting, title and structure can all come later.  Velella  Velella Talk 05:34, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Your draft will be declined in its current state; you should follow Velella's instructions. Still, I have added the AFC template, so you can submit for review it when you think it is ready – there's a button in the bottom right. Someone will deal with the titling then. Skarmory   (talk •   contribs)  06:14, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Honest question regarding objectivity.
Does wikipedia even bother trying to hold to any standards of objectivity any longer? Serious, earnest question. Citations on articles are frequently, if not constantly, attributed to sources with blatant biases and activistic pursuits that can be discerned within 30 seconds of a Google search. Edits made to remove biased sources are immediately undone by editors whose profile pages are slathered with flairs openly declaring very specific activistic agendas often in support of the biased sources provided. Or is the "objectivity standard" cited little more than a mask at this point? Wikipedia's relevance and credibility is completely in the tank at this point and rather than address the problem, it seems this site is determined to double down on that which is turning it into a laughingstock. If I'm going to assist in providing edits that re-establish encyclopedia-level standards of objectivity without having some frothing political activist undo all my works and then IP-lock me for being "disruptive" for citing journalistic sources with low-bias high-objectivity scores like The Hill, Reuters, and Pew Research over blatantly activist sources like The Mary Sue, The Young Turks, The Atlantic, and numerous other high-bias, low-objectivity blogger-tier rags, where should I start and how should I go about it? Or would I be better off just not bothering? 2600:6C44:E7F:9B31:983D:7273:7AB6:705E (talk) 08:11, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Being biased does not necessarily preclude the use of a source on Wikipedia. Wikipedia doesn't claim to be without bias, as all sources and readers have biases. Sources are presented to readers so they can evaluate and judge them for themselves as to bias and other factors in determining what they think about what they read(as you did). Wikipedia does not claim to be the truth, only that what is presented can be verified. Wikipedia attempts to have a neutral point of view, which is different from bias.
 * A source needs only to be considered reliable to be used here. If you are saying that some sources are so biased that they are making things up out of whole cloth, or even just so inaccurate that they cannot be trusted to be a reliable source, that is an issue for the reliable sources noticeboard. It sounds to me though, that you've already decided that Wikipedia does not fit with your political or social views. If so, you should find somewhere more compatible with your views that tells you what you want to hear. 331dot (talk) 08:17, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I will say that if your concern is specific sources used(not necessarily an entire outlet), that is a matter for the article talk page. 331dot (talk) 08:20, 12 June 2023 (UTC)


 * We require sources to be reliable. We do not require them to be unbiased. If you find an article that uses a biased source, you are free to add information from another reliable source that has a different bias. In all cases a source that is so biased that it has ceased to be reliable should be discussed at reliable sources noticeboard. It is far better to try to achieve a consensus in an article's talk page about how to incorporate multiple views into the article. If you use tone and wording like what you used here, you are unlikely to achieve consensus. If you use tone and wording that assume good faith (even or especially if you believe others acting in bad faith) you may be able to achieve consensus. -Arch dude (talk) 14:32, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Could you link on which pages these sources are getting cited? Crainsaw (talk) 14:50, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Publishing from sandbox
I've published article in sandbox - I do not see the move to publish button. How do I know the article has gone for approval? Masnaida (talk) 08:57, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * You have Draft:Trainocate Group; you need to click the "submit your draft for review" button in the box at the top to actually submit it. If you were to do so, though, it would be declined quickly, as it does not summarize what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about the company, showing how it meets the special Wikipedia definition of a notable company.
 * Please see your user talk page for important information. 331dot (talk) 09:00, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I would suggest that you edit your draft and not your sandbox, it's easier to submit the draft. 331dot (talk) 09:01, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Edit deletion request
Hi,

I made a mess of the edit summary of this edit, because I thought the edit would happen on Wikidata:

.

Can an administrator delete it, please?

Thanks. &mdash; Gennaro Prota &#8226;Talk 10:57, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Mistakes in edit summaries are common. Users sometimes make a dummy edit to explain a previous edit in a new edit summary. We don't hide edit summaries unless it's more serious like grossly insulting, degrading, or offensive material. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:14, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I actually hoped that the whole edit could be deleted (although only the edit summary is wrong, the edit itself isn't particularly useful, either). &mdash; Gennaro Prota &#8226;Talk 14:30, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Update: I made the dummy edit (), although, influenced by "commit message", I used the expression "edit message" in lieu of "edit summary", so I'd need another dummy edit to fix that one :-). (Just kidding.) &mdash; Gennaro Prota &#8226;Talk 10:28, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Anna Laetitia Barbauld
Please fix ref. numbers 26 and 27 - they are all in red. Please leave in the "NB" and quotes. Sorry Thanks 175.38.42.62 (talk) 12:04, 12 June 2023 (UTC)


 * should be good now. lettherebedarklight晚安 12:08, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Anna Laetitia Barbauld
Sorry again - ref number 2 is a  Russian thesis - I cannot work out when it was done - please look at it. Please leave in the long quote! Thanks 175.38.42.62 (talk) 12:24, 12 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Done. The paper is in English, but published in a Serbian journal (not a Russian one). ColinFine (talk) 13:42, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Process of uploading a university seal
I am updating the article about Mindanao State University–Maguindanao and tried to upload the current seal. I researched a little bit about the copyright aspects of it and did not really learned the appropriate process to upload. So, how can I upload a seal for this purpose? Robusuta (talk) 13:31, 12 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @Robusuta: Hi there! Try using the File Upload Wizard and uploading it as a non-free file. GoingBatty (talk) 13:47, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you! Robusuta (talk) 14:26, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Aligning to center
Hiya fellow Wikipedians, it's me, 多多123 (this is a new account as I'm not at home). I would like to align this to the center. Here it is:


 * Please [message ] me here.

123Alt (talk) 14:28, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * You can use center and omit margins:

Please [message ] me here.
 * PrimeHunter (talk) 15:13, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Image wanders up and down through different article sections depending on page width
In the article Shah Jahan II there is an image of a coin. I don't think there's anything wrong with the syntax used to include the image. It's been inserted at the top of the Reign section. However, its actual position in the page depends on how wide the page is relative to the image. For me, by default, it appears in the middle of the references section. If I make my window wider, or zoom out, I can get the image to go all the way down to External links. If I zoom in to an absurd level, the image appears in its proper place at the top of Reign. What is causing this? Card Zero (talk) 16:12, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks like the image will display no higher than the top of the sidebar to the right. Why that is, no clue. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 17:34, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Good spot! I think it's not aligning with the Mughal emperors sidebar, but in fact is being pushed down to below the Rafi-ud-Daulah royalty Infobox. If I get rid of the infobox the image appears in its proper place at the top of Reign. Hmm. Do I need to put &lcub;&lcub;clear&rcub;&rcub; after the infobox perhaps? Wait no, that's the opposite of what's needed here. We need the infobox not to do a &lcub;&lcub;clear&rcub;&rcub;, because that will chase any images stupidly far down the article to positions where they aren't relevant. Card Zero  (talk) 17:48, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Removing the sidebar also made the image display correctly, even above the bottom of the infobox, so I think it's the sidebar. That is even more confusing than if it was the infobox clearing, since I have no idea how that'd come about. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 17:51, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Seems to happen with any infobox + sidebar combination, including simple ones I made up from scratch. Card Zero  (talk) 19:10, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I have used stack. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:15, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Very good! I noticed the template while hunting for solutions, but assumed it was for stacking things, so I didn't look at it. In fact it's for stacking things nicely in relation to other things alongside them, and I guess that was the nature of the problem. Card Zero  (talk) 19:27, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Zephyr Teachout
I am not a Wiki editor, but this person's page should be updated to reflect her nephew's activities. Could you please update the Wiki page for Zephyr Teachout to reflect that her nephew, Waylon Kurts, was arrested and has charges pending for terroristic threats and conspiracy to commit assault and threats of violence? See the following link. https://www.kare11.com/article/news/crime/alleged-st-olaf-college-mass-shooting-plotter-no-longer-monitored-by-gps-or-prohibited-having-guns/89-ea53fc26-da4a-4056-b39a-ccc942e8e1b6 73.37.176.115 (talk) 17:28, 12 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello IP editor! Anyone is a wiki editor, you don't even need an account to edit. However, I don't see why this information about her nephew would belong on an article about her. She doesn't seem to be involved in this story beyond simply being related to the subject. We have strict guidelines about what belongs in articles about living persons, so please review those before requesting or making edits in the future.  WP scatter  t/c 17:33, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Group of articles that need attention
Synthetic environment, and its branching articles Synthetic natural environment, Synthetic human-made environment and Synthetic psychological environment were all created in 2009 by one user, now retired. All are undersourced and littered with technical/MoS problems. I think the articles should be either deleted, or the 3 outer articles be merged into Synthetic environment. Unfortunately I'm *scared* to nominate multiple AfDs or merges. Help -  Ap m  h  18:34, 12 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello Apmh! From WP:MERGE, "If the need for a merge is obvious, editors can be bold and simply do it." Taking a look at these articles, I think that clearly applies here. All of the articles are quite short and could easily be incorporated into the more general one, and I don't think the "branch" articles demonstrate notability beyond the general subject of synthetic environments. Have a look at that help page (specifically this section) to see how to carry out the merge. But yeah, I really doubt anyone would contest this.  WP scatter  t/c 19:12, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

How to resolve differences over covering multiple efforts towards "Libre" booting or "Libreboot" at Libreboot
Problem: How to resolve a dispute over existence of multiple companies and teams working to develop "Libreboot" and sell computer hardware with it? How to cover the change of which efforts are supported by GNU/FSF, which has been the one constant in reliable sources? Background: About 2010 FSF started a "Respects Your Freedom" certification. Under that umbrella, a few companies' efforts to sell computers with "Libreboot" were certified and supported. Some years ago (5'ish?) Minifree company, variously also known as Gluglug aka osboot aka Distroboot, split from GNU/FSF after being promoted by GNU/FSF for 3-4(?) years, and maintaining a project under the GNU projects. Less reliable (according to some) sources describe, suffice to say, an on-again, off-again relationship. The article currently describes a history with GNU/FSF involvement throughout, with the best sources describing efforts of a few different companies that have also been certified, sold products using the technology (booting firmware), and contributed to the software development. Over years, some editors have managed to mostly maintain the article as what I will describe as a very biased presentation centered almost entirely on one effort/company led by one person (marketed with a few names, mentioned above), and sometimes supported by FSF/GNU. I favor adding another infobox for the new team and effort announced in March 2023, and changing the "official" designation to that one; however, one or two other editors insist there is only one true "Libreboot" and that is the one led by Rowe/Minifree (my over-simplified summary). Talk page discussions do not converge towards resolution. I've considered a few options, but need help selecting the best venue. Thanks. -- Yae4 (talk) 19:56, 12 June 2023 (UTC)


 * @Yae4 I think that your discussion is already in the correct place, the Talk Page of the relevant article. There are various ways to handle dispute resolution including seeking a third opinion and you can notify relevant Projects of the dispute (in a neutral way). Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:06, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I considered 3O, but there are already, sometimes, more than 2 involved at the talk. Also considering NPOV/N or DRN, but couldn't decide which fit better. -- Yae4 (talk) 14:50, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Yae4 Personally, I tend to go for the Project route unless there is some real drama and lack of WP:AGF evident in the discussion, which doesn't seem to be the case here. Mike Turnbull (talk) 14:56, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Could you clarify, is the Project route an RfC? -- Yae4 (talk) 14:59, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily. You can just say something like "There is a discussion about X at Talk:Libreboot which members of this Project may wish to contribute to." Just make sure you word it neutrally so as not to be accused of canvassing. The idea is that lots more editors will have the Project Talk Page on their watchlist than the exact article. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:03, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I thought RfCs did that automatically. My mistake. -- Yae4 (talk) 15:28, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
 * @Yae4 You're not wrong. The WP:RfC process is just a more formal process and that link explains what it is and when to use it. In your particular case, a simple informal pointer to the discussion seems fine to me. Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:43, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Very slow
Why is it that on any page, from about 23:00 onwards, the English-language Wikipedia is so slow in editing? I would have already edited another page, if not goss for this slowness. JackkBrown (talk) 21:46, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not experiencing that problem. Have you checked your computer, browser, and wifi? Unfortunately, wikipedians are in no position to help you here. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 22:11, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Possibly because 23:00 BST is 18:00 EST and the Yanks have come home and are starting to use and edit WP? In the early days on the Internet it was really noticeable how responses slowed after lunch when the Americas arrived in the office!  There may also be increased loading at the European end as overnight jobs get going? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 22:15, 12 June 2023 (UTC)