Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 March 3

__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ = March 3 =

Page display issue

 * David Joyce (politician)

Direct Page Creation
I have had an AFC submission declined in the past for reasons I understand, and were beyond my control. Recently I wrote a page, which is currently at Draft:Creation of a Programming Language, however, it got moved to the draftspace, for what seems to be a little bit of uncited statements, and mostly similar sources. I have added more sources, removed anything I couldn't find citations for, and added wider varieties of sources, so now I'm nearly confident if I was in a reviewers shoes, I would accept the page. However, AFC does take quite some time. So my actual question is, after this submission is reviewed, am I allowed to use my own judgement of whether or not it would be appropriate to move an article I wrote back to the mainspace once I feel the issues have been resolved? Or is it that once an article is moved to the draftspace it must be moved back via AFC? Spacebyte (talk) 00:19, 3 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Spacebyte I am the editor who draftified your article. I did so because it is essay-like and contains information found in other articles, such as dynamic typing, object oriented programming, and low-level language. I would probably recommend merging the content into those respective articles. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 00:42, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand. I don't agree entirely though. I might consider changing that section to focus on broader topics then? Spacebyte (talk) 00:49, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Another update. I have removed those topics as they too broad for such a specific topic, and the more I think about it the more you seem correct that, that section makes it seem like an essay. I have replaced it with a more useful section, and will move it to the mainspace. If it gets moved back to the draft space I will modify it and then wait out an AFC submission. Spacebyte (talk) 00:59, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * (ec).AFC is voluntary(unless you are a new user, IP user, or have a COI). It's a good idea to use it unless you have experience in creating articles, but it's not required. If it was moved to draft space, it's not required to be submitted, but you should make sure to hear the concerns of the user who draft-ifyed it. Are you on a deadline? Wikipedia has no deadlines. 331dot (talk) 00:46, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Spacebyte, I see that you now have moved this to mainspace. However the topic is already covered in much more depth at Programming language and its subpages, Programming language specification and Programming language implementation. There is a case for a standalone alone article, though with a less how-to like title. Your lead paragraph is not correct - languages are not created by creating a compiler or an interpreter. The specification of the language has to be done first, and you have left that out. Also, your first reference is a link to a copyrighted book posted online as a copyright violation - please change that to a reference to the book without that illegal link. Find sources that are not blogs or student papers. StarryGrandma (talk) 04:48, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright. I’ll work on it. Spacebyte (talk) 05:26, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Please see What_Wikipedia_is_not. Maproom (talk) 07:49, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Why did you remove my edit
David Livingstone was a huge fan of dunking Oreo cookies in milk. However, it wasn't just any milk. Livingstone's dairy beverage of choice was soy milk, which, to be honest, is absolutely detestable. Henry Stanley once told his dear friend, "Good sir! I do believe that you have gone quite mad! Soy milk is nothing more than the tears of vegans dyed to an odd shade of beige. Quite frankly, I am ashamed of you! As is your mother too! Good day, Dr. Livingstone. May God have mercy on your poor soul!" David soon went into a deep depression. He began dunking dozens, no hundreds, of single stuffed Oreo cookies into his sad excuse for a beverage. (You could tell he was depressed because he was only eating single stuff Oreos, and not double stuff like a real man.) One day, his wife burst into the room and exclaimed, "David! I am fed up with your drinking problem!" (by which she meant his drinking of soy milk) "I am leaving you and I am taking the kids with me!" To which David responded, "But dear wife, we don't have any children." "Oh," was her solemn response. "You are indeed correct Davie, you have outsmarted my outsmarting. I apologize." But David paid her no attention, for he was too busy dunking one Oreo after another into his depressing white liquid. He has lost all sense of reality. All he wanted was to sit in his tiny African hut and eat Oreos. The moral of the story is this, don't drink soy milk. It tastes like feet. 69.85.242.5 (talk) 04:21, 3 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Your edit to the David Livingstone was reverted because it was vandalism. GoingBatty (talk) 04:31, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

LOGINHOW
IWANTTOLOGINHOWPO// 2001:4455:671:4400:D581:4A73:4D1D:F99C (talk) 05:10, 3 March 2023 (UTC)


 * AUCHOK 2001:4455:671:4400:D581:4A73:4D1D:F99C (talk) 05:11, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * MARCHPOMAGLOGIN 2001:4455:671:4400:D581:4A73:4D1D:F99C (talk) 05:12, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * OKTHNKYOU 2001:4455:671:4400:D581:4A73:4D1D:F99C (talk) 05:12, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * hi ip user and welcome to the Help Desk! try Login. &#128156; melecie   talk  - 05:13, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Sexual objectification
Hello English-language Wikipedians. I would like advice on how to proceed with a concern over probable sexual objectification in the article List of Japanese gravure idols. A gravure idol is a female model who primarily models for magazines. A sub-set of the article’s list of models is those who are bakunyū, literally “enormous breasts”, and a genre of pornographic media focusing on the depiction of women with large breasts. In the list article, the bra cup size for each bakunyū model is shown, e.g. F-cup.

I think it is reasonable for the list article to exist, and for bakunyū models to be identified, since both gravure and bakunyū are notable media genres in Japan. My question is whether cup size should be shown. To me this is clear sexual objectification.

Can others share their opinions, and point me at relevant WP guidelines or discussion areas? I have not raised this question (yet) on the article’s Talk page, since I suspect many of those who have a close interest in the subject may not be impartial. Thanks. Masato.harada (talk) 09:43, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The best place to have this discussion is at Talk:List of Japanese gravure idols. 331dot (talk) 09:45, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed with . I've had a quick glance at the list, and taking it along with your explanation above it seems reasonable.  Like it or not, these models are notable for "enormous breasts", the cup size gives a measure of that, and is therefore relevant.  Were they notable for their faces, character or acting ability then I would agree with you.  I presume that they are happy to be publicly known as bakunyū and therefore reporting facts seems acceptable.  Whether this is desirable is a question for Japanese society, not WP.  All IMHO of course. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:57, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I have checked the 10 articles listed and oddly none of them mentions bakunyū. TSventon (talk) 10:35, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * See Haruka Ayase in the first section of the list. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 12:50, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Martin of Sheffield, if you were replying to me, the article Haruka Ayase does not mention bakunyū or her bra size. TSventon (talk) 20:12, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * , no but the list does which is what the OP was asking about. If the tag "bakunyū" and cup size are not in the articles, then a cn is required since the list should reflect the articles or else have its own citations.  The OP asked if it was reasonable for cup size to be quoted for models whose claim to fame is that they have "enormous breasts", if that claim is false then the claim along with the cup size needs to be pruned.  I'll leave the investigation to you!  Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:41, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * , I think I have investigated as much as I am interested to and as much as I can as I don't understand Japanese.
 * , I think the main policy is WP:BLPRS (reliable sources for biographies of living people). For example Haruka Ayase's bra size is sourced to a page on zakzak.co.jp, which looks like an announcement that a dvd is being released and not a reliable source (WP:RS). The source does not mention bakunyū. The article Haruka Ayase does not mention bakunyū or her bra size. The other entries may be equally questionable. TSventon (talk) 22:35, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'd entirely agree with your reasoning. WP:BLPRS makes it clear that unsourced information should be removed.  Either you or  should proceed citing WP:BLPRS and or WP:RS as justification.  Leave the whole "probable sexual objectification" issue out, it's a pretty shaky argument. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:18, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your help. I've removed all references to cup-size or bakunyū work from the list article, since that information did not have reliable sources, nor was it included in the individual biographical articles for any of the gravure idols. I'm still interested to know if there are any guidelines which address sexual objectification, or a group or discussion area for this specific topic? Masato.harada (talk) 11:47, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I doubt that there are specific guidelines on sexual objectification, see WP:NOTCENSORED. Using internet search, I found WikiProject Pornography and WikiProject Feminism, which have talk pages where you could seek more specialist advice, also there is an essay, Pornography. TSventon (talk) 13:36, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

I wanna change switch to if
Can I change the 'Switch' function below to an if function? thanks Rlakk00 (talk) 10:30, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If  is a constant then the whole expression can just be changed to   but I guess it's not a constant.   only tests whether something is non-empty so it's not suited here. You can write it with multiple   or   but it's more complicated than a single  . See mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:51, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

German Jordanian university acount
hello i can log in my account 87.236.233.250 (talk) 14:14, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Accounts are for individuals and must not have a username implying they represent an organization. Create your own account. If you think you already have an account but cannot log in then try Special:PasswordReset. If that doesn't work then what is the username? PrimeHunter (talk) 14:30, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * And now we have editing German Jordanian University. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 14:52, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * They've been blocked. I've cleaned up the promotional material in the article a bit. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 15:24, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Ghisberto
La pagina ha davvero un valore enciclopedico? Non si sta parlando di Banksy ma di uno che cerca di arrivare a sera disegnando. 37.163.153.30 (talk) 14:35, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This is the English Wikipedia. We communicate in English. There is an Italian Wikipedia at https://it.wikipedia.org. Google Translate says "Does the page really have encyclopedic value? We are not talking about Banksy but about someone who tries to get through the night by drawing". English Wikipedia articles should have reliable independent sources to satisfy Notability, or Notability (people) for a biography. If you think Ghisberto fails that then see Deletion policy. It's not about individual perception of "encyclopedic value". PrimeHunter (talk) 14:45, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Infobox formatting (done)
Considering the infobox for United Nations, does anyone know how exactly to fix the section starting with, which is currently not displayed? Dear PrimeHunter maybe, once again? Thanks a lot in advance for any assistance. Hildeoc (talk) 20:20, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * is only displayed if  has content. It's currently empty after evaluation. There is conditional code which only displayed something in 2021, e.g.  . It should be updated with the 2023 schedule. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:35, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for helping me out once again. As I personally do not have the capacity to take care of such an actual update, what would be the best makeshift solution for the time being from your POV? Hildeoc (talk) 20:53, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Somebody just has to copy the 2023 countries from Presidency of the United Nations Security Council, assuming that list is correct. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:02, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I've now added a notification on this thread on the talk page. Hildeoc (talk) 22:38, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @PrimeHunter: I'm not quite sure how one would have to deal with that existing "conditional code" in this case. Excuse me, if I'm slow on the uptake here. I'd be glad, however, to see this infobox fixed – not least in view of that important article being labeled "good". Hildeoc (talk) 22:57, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I have updated it. I don't plan to look for future updates after 2024 January. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:10, 6 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much, and sorry for bothering! (Now I see: The switch by default causes only the relevant corresponding entry to be displayed. Once again, I must apologize for not being familiar with the use of these functionalities. But I will try to improve my skills accordingly.) You're really always a great help. My best wishes to you! Hildeoc (talk) 23:19, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Please restrict editing to article "Huwara"
One or more IP editors are repeatedly vandalising article Huwara. Please could editing be restricted to prevent this. Thanks Misha Wolf (talk) 20:43, 3 March 2023 (UTC)


 * @Misha Wolf, WP:RFPP is set up to handle such requests. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 20:46, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Misha Wolf (talk) 20:47, 3 March 2023 (UTC)

Background colors in SVG
I recently uploaded File:Overwolf vertical.svg. I then uploaded another version that had the background color added. However, the background color doesn't show up in the preview, though it shows up in the raw upload. Any idea why? Aaron Liu (talk) 22:05, 3 March 2023 (UTC)


 * @Aaron Liu I'm not sure about the technical issue but I would caution that creating logos as .svg files and uploading on English wikipedia as "fair use" is likely to lead to problems as the whole point of .svg is that they scale to high resolution. I think you would be best to use a .png version. Mike Turnbull (talk) 22:18, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I've had nonfree logo PNGs deleted as redundant to SVGs before... ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 22:20, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Michael D. Turnbull says svgs from the official site (which it is in this case) should be fine. Aaron Liu  (talk) 22:37, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Another instance of this (preview issues are mentioned in subsequent posts)? 199.208.172.35 (talk) 22:37, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I put the image in the article after uploading the ver. w/ background. This probably isn't a purge issue. Aaron Liu (talk) 22:38, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I think your issue is more akin to Mike Turnbull's, @Aaron Liu, which apparently also isn't a purge issue (no one seems to have decided what sort of issue it is yet). 199.208.172.35 (talk) 22:42, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @199.208.172.35 Mike didn't describe the technical issue, they were talking about policy concerns. Aaron Liu (talk) 22:45, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Aaron Liu, I'm not talking about his post here at the help desk. He's the one who made the post at VPT I linked to. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 22:47, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Aaron Liu I think you have answered the policy part: you found the WP:NFC link I had missed. The "issue" might be related to one reported yesterday at the VPT, See WP:Village_pump_(technical) but I personally doubt it. Mike Turnbull (talk) 22:48, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Michael D. Turnbull So, all you did was change the image size in the article up 20px, and everything magically fixed itself, including the preview at the top of the file page? And that's all I need to do? Aaron Liu (talk) 23:03, 3 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Aaron Liu Sorry, I didn't have time to fully reply before I headed to bed last night. The reason I doubted it was exactly the same problem is that I had tried adding | logo_size = nnn to the infobox at Overwolf and previewing the result. I could find no value for nnn which fixed the problem. So in your case there seems to be something else going on. One experiment would be for you to upload a new, correct, .svg from their website under a new name and see if that works. Then the old one could be deleted. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:31, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The problem may disappear of its own accord on March 11, when a bot rev-deletes the first version. Mike Turnbull (talk) 11:54, 4 March 2023 (UTC)