Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 March 30

__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ = March 30 =

References from books
I would like to provide additional information to some of my timelines articles but the information would come from books and not from the internet. I want to state as a reference that this information has come from a book but I would not know how to go about it. Also are references from books acceptable for Wikipedia? Rillington (talk) 08:05, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * To answer the second question first, yes. For the first part, consider either cite book or citation. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:10, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Books can be used as sources. You should provide the full bibliographic information like title, author, year, publisher, and an identifier like the ISBN if applicable. You can use the Cite book template for this as well. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 08:10, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for these speedy and most helpful replies. :) Rillington (talk) 08:19, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Looking at each article individually, if the article has a consistent citation style, you should follow that style. See WP:CITEVAR. Jc3s5h (talk) 08:26, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. And it seen as acceptable to include multiple references from the same book? Rillington (talk) 04:57, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Rillington Yes, you can include multiple references from the same book. You can use the RP template to reference which page the information is taken from.  For an example where I have done this see Der Ruf (newspaper).  There are other ways of indicating which page of a book information comes from, but that's the one I'm most familiar with. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 13:03, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * For an existing article WP:CITEVAR overrides any personal preferences. If you are creating an article from scratch (or adding references for the first time) then you can choose your preferred style.  The majority of editors seem to prefer to add the citations directly into the body of the article: but this can lead to the same citation being inserted multiple times and the order of the citations is somewhat random.  Some editors (disclosure: myself included) prefer to add the citations in alphabetical order at the foot of the article and use sfn to add the references.  Sfn references include the page number and a clickable link to the citation.  RP as mentioned by  is similar in intent to sfn, but personally I find sfn clearer.  See All Saints Church, Frindsbury for an example of sfn usage.  That example also illustrates efn for footnotes and how they work together.  Martin of Sheffield (talk) 16:10, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the additional hints and advice. Rillington (talk) 06:09, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

misuse of admin power
I've been blocked by admin Bishonen, backed up by three collegues, - without warning (!) - unlimited (!) - without having done harm to any article (!) - in spite of decennia of fruitful edits with many thanks (not all reproducable because of ip-changes by providers in many, many years, - without having insulted anybody, - simply because I didn't login every time - misinterpreted as "socketpuppetry, and - am not able to follow every discussion ad infinitum - misinterpreted as "failure to communicate", - without a concrete hint of what is concretely expected beyond all I tried. I would regard that as a severe misuse of power. Hans J. Holm 2A02:8108:9640:1A68:850E:FDF0:59BE:BB49 (talk) 09:17, 30 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Posting here is a violation of your block. Go to your account’s talk page and post an unblock request. If you have already done so and "three colleagues" have denied your request, maybe consider a change in your approach. Tigraan Click here for my talk page ("private" contact) 09:28, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I assume your account is User:HJHolm. When  blocked you she gave a clear explanation of what you should do to be unblocked.  Your repeated failure to make a suitable unblock request is the main reason you continue to be blocked and have now have talkpage access revoked; Bishonen's latest message on your talkpage explains how to appeal the block now that you no longer have talkpage access.  If you follow the advice in her initial blocking message, it is quite possible that you will be unblocked, but the more you edit as an IP in violation of that block the less likely that is. Caeciliusinhorto-public (talk) 11:39, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the ping, Caeciliusinhorto-public. The main reason I removed talkpage access was that mr Holm called users (in this case, admins) a "KuKluxKlan gang" and "Freisler types" (=Nazis) on his page. (As well as actually cursing them "forever and ever", but that I took more as a humorous touch.) That may be a problem in regard to being unblocked. But I have no interest in involving myself further; I'll be glad to leave it to UTRS admins. (PS, the IP has been blocked for 72 hours for block evasion, not by me.) Bishonen &#124; tålk 12:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC).

I've been blocked
Hello,

I was editing wikipage https://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinig%C5%B3_muziejus, but I've been blocked (my username is Behemoth1985) and I don't understand reason why... The reason I'm editing itz, its because I'm working at that institution (which is Money Museum of the Bank of Lithuania) and we decided to renew information. Text is taken from the official website pinigumuziejus.lt. Photos are made by me, so I really want to do it. 81.29.24.172 (talk) 12:57, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If you have a username, you should be logged into it(it will work here). We cannot help you with issues on the Lithuanian Wikipedia, each version of Wikipedia is a separate project, with its own editors and policies.  You will need to handle this there, using whatever process they have to do so. 331dot (talk) 13:01, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Sounds like you have a conflict of interest (COI). Notice that you can have a COI even if you are not being paid to edit articles. Make sure to read through and follow the rules on COIs on the Lithuanian Wikipedia (and on any other version where you edit articles). Then read up on the rules for blocking and unblocking and go through the appropriate unblock request procedure on the Lithuanian Wikipedia. Random person no 362478479 (talk) 13:22, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * In addition to your conflict of interest, if you were copying text from the official website, you were almost certainly introducing copyright violations. While the Lithuanian Wikipedia's policies differ slightly from the English Wikipedia's, they clearly frown on COI editing (as that is what you were blocked for according to your block log there), and all Wikipedias must respect copyright laws.  Your block there is a partial block, only preventing you from editing that specific article, and only for a period of 2 weeks.  I suggest you use the 2 weeks to read up on their policies on conflict of interest editing and copyright, and also to edit some other articles to try to get a feel for what is and isn't appropriate. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 12:58, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Drop-down list when entering text into Editing Summary field: how to clear?
When entering text into the Editing Summary field of a newly-edited article, a drop-down list appears of past contents of the field, depending upon what I've typed so far. I want to clear out those suggestions, which I'll mostly never use again. How do I do that? -- Doktor Züm (talk) 13:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure if it is Wikipedia or your browser doing this. You could try clearing the browser history, with "form fill" selected as one of the cleaning options.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 13:49, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I was sure you were right, but clearing the Firefox "Form and Search History", and (for good measure) all other history settings, and then restarting the browser, had no effect on this problem. Thanks anyway. -- Doktor Züm (talk) 14:20, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Is there not a delete option, e.g. a bin, at the end of each line? (hover and click) I am not familiar with Firefox but most browsers have this, and usually show the most commonly used text, rather than the most recent, which can be very useful - Arjayay (talk) 14:27, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * From my experience I have to select the item then press Shift. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 14:39, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Did you select to clear all time? The default may be the last hour. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:56, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @PrimeHunter: Yes, all time.
 * @Tenryuu: Shift+Del doesn't work.
 * @Arjayay: No icons. Screenshot here, after entering 3 characters. Hovering on list entries does nothing.
 * Doktor Züm - is that a drag symbol in the bottom RH corner of the strong blue box around 10s ? - Arjayay (talk) 16:55, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. Just changes the size of the edit field -- Doktor Züm (talk) 19:05, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I tried a different browser, freshly installed (Ungoogled Chromium). Exactly same behaviour. Apparently Mediawiki remembers past contents of all fields? -- Doktor Züm (talk) 16:48, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Doktor Züm: Oh, that's Mediawiki's own autofill history, which is separate from your browser's. As far as I remember it remembers the last (approximately) 200 edit summaries you've made. Not sure on any surefire way to clear it. — Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 16:50, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This? Grrr! Thanks, all -- Doktor Züm (talk) 16:59, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I haven't heard about MediaWiki remembering your edit summaries. Your link is an unrelated feature in the search box which doesn't base autocompletion on your own activity. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:18, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Doktor Züm I can confirm that edit summaries are remembered, at least when using the source editor. I suspect it is a combination of my browser (Edge=Chromium-based) and wiki software, because I get different lists depending whether I edit the whole article or just a section of it (such as External Links). In any case, I can hover over a given edit summary with my cursor and then a trashcan icon appears next to it and unwanted items can be deleted. The facility to remember edit summaries is incredibly useful when you are repetitively editing to fix some specific problem found using a search. Mike Turnbull (talk) 17:32, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The prefilled section name in section edit summaries is part of the edit summary and can be changed like the rest. If you edit an external links section, the prefill says  and your browser remembers other edit summaries which started with that string. They are also remembered if you manually enter the string without actually editing an external links section. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:51, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I've now tried Firefox, Ungoogled Chromium, and Google Chrome. All behave identically. No rubbish bins (trashcans). I wonder if drop-down lists are drawn differently by my system's gui toolkit (Linux/GTK) vs. Windows systems? Such is life. -- Doktor Züm (talk) 19:23, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Do the edit summaries appear if you log out? That would indicate they are probably remembered at your end and not by MediaWiki. I don't know everything so it is possible MediaWiki can remember edit summaries in some situations. I just haven't heard about it. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:31, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @PrimeHunter, yes, drop-down edit summaries persist across Wikipedia sessions (logout, login again). Likewise for contents of Find and Replace fields in VisualEditor. Also persist across browser sessions (close tabs, quit, restart). -- Doktor Züm (talk) 02:52, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I meant whether they appear while you are logged out. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:59, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * If you mean editing as IP editor, then, after the same edit on the same article, I get a different edit summary box (screenshot here), which has no memory of my Doktor Züm edit summaries. That doesn't seem to support your theory (?) -- Doktor Züm (talk) 12:40, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This should be raised at WP:VPT. It's worrying if MediaWiki stores any information that a user cannot request to be deleted, as it would run into problems such as General Data Protection Regulation in Europe.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 07:43, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll do a few more tests (different gui toolkits, etc) then pass it on. -- Doktor Züm (talk) 11:56, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Doktor Züm, @Ianmacm It seems it is likely to be a browser "feature", not anything related to the Wikimedia software. I've convinced myself of that by editing from a alternative account and even though the software can't know my two accounts are linked, the edit summaries on offer are identical. Mike Turnbull (talk) 21:27, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Error on Olympics page
On https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_Games_host_cities, the map of which counties have hosted the winter olympics has French Guiana highlighted, but they have never hosted. 73.238.135.23 (talk) 15:33, 30 March 2023 (UTC)


 * I think you'll find that the green is for countries that have held both summer & winter games, though the caption doesn't say so. Presumably the map is one which includes overseas territories of a country, and French Guiana is included with France. - David Biddulph (talk) 15:42, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * You'll see that this was mentioned some time ago at Talk:List of Olympic Games host cities, which is the correct place for discussing that article. - David Biddulph (talk) 15:47, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * French Guiana is technically not an overseas territory (France) but in overseas departments and regions of France. It has exactly the same status as the European departments. For an American analogy, think Hawaii and not Puerto Rico. Hawaii is green in the map like the US but not Puerto Rico. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:42, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Return to the better interface
Hi, in January there were helpful links posted somewhere on en-WP how the evil 2023 interface could be disabled. I did so, and also remember to have changed my global settings. Except that the global settings were seemingly reversed at some point, and I cannot find them anymore. Please help; I definitely need interwiki capabilities. --Enyavar (talk) 16:44, 30 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Is this what you're looking for?
 * Preferences -> Appearance -> Skin -> Vector legacy (2010) Random person no 362478479 (talk) 17:09, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The global setting is at Special:GlobalPreferences. You need a checkmark for the selection to take effect. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:22, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

Question re column widths
I've got a four-column table that starts like this:
 * {| class="wikitable"
 * ! colspan="1"| Serial
 * ! colspan="2" | Date
 * ! Place
 * ! Speech
 * ! Speech

The "colspan=2" separates the date into two columns: the month-day and the year. (These two columns have no separate label, and fine).

I want to make the month-day column a little wider (but not at the expense of the year column, rather at the expense of the Speech column, or possibly the Place column. How. Herostratus (talk) 18:37, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Width can be specified in any cell in a column. Pick a non-header cell without colspan. For your purpose I suggest to not specify width but use nowrap on the longest month-day value if you don't expect longer values to be added later. You can also insert a non-breaking space  instead of a normal space between month and day. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:48, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, that works, thank you. There's a lot of syntax stuff to keep up with. No I certainly don't expect him to be making any more speeches, and a good thing too. Herostratus (talk) 02:17, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I guess it's about List of speeches given by Adolf Hitler. Why is there a separate column for year? We normally write a full date in one cell unless we use rowspan on years with multiple dates. PrimeHunter (talk) 18:54, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know, but it seems to look OK, so might as well leave it since we have a solution. Herostratus (talk) 02:17, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

@sabinalamaghising2
may Account leaking 2001:F40:943:30:54AA:C535:E5AB:D396 (talk) 19:06, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Please clarify what you want. This is Wikipedia. We have no account called @sabinalamaghising2 or sabinalamaghising2. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:36, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

unicode
In the article "Romanian Cyrillic alphabet" it shows squares where an old Cyrillic character should be. Has something to do with Unicode. What must I do? 195.74.226.120 (talk) 20:42, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I see no white rectangles at Romanian Cyrillic alphabet; old Cyrillic characters like Ѫ ѫ and Ꙟ ꙟ show up as intended. I'm using Windows 11 and Chrome, and I haven't done anything to install or enable Unicode features. What kind of system and browser are you using? Maproom (talk) 20:59, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I use Microsoft Edge/Opera and Windows. I don't know what Windows exactly. 195.74.226.120 (talk) 21:07, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I've tried Opera now, and it shows those characters, even though I've never configured it in any way. Do you see the four old Cyrillic characters in my reseponse above? Maproom (talk) 08:11, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * IP editor: I use Edge with Windows 10 and all these characters are fine. I suggest you open MS Word on your PC and try to Insert/Symbol/More Symbols to check that you have the expected full set of characters correctly installed. Then copy/paste one of the Cyrillics into your sandbox here and see what you get when previewing. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:19, 31 March 2023 (UTC)
 * i kinda fixed the problem 195.74.226.120 (talk) 13:34, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Wikisource link in translation namespace
Hi Folks!! How you link to wikisource which is in the translation namespace. Is it transparent? Its for the Second law on the status of Jews. Its this    scope_creep Talk  20:44, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Just s:Translation:Second law on the status of Jews. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 20:58, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi Is there not a wikisource template of some sort. I would like to show the box if possible? I'll use if not.    scope_creep Talk  21:03, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't see why you couldn't just use the normal template. You can pipe the link using the second parameter if that concerns you. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 21:11, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * No clue and never used it until now. That is really cool. Thanks.  scope_creep Talk  21:24, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samma_dynasty
Why, in this paragraph, are these signs present (they look like wikilinks, but they are not)? [1] e [2]? "In the last part of Jám Nindó's reign, after 1490 CE, a Mughul army under Shah Beg Arghun came from Kandahar and fell upon many villages of Chundooha and Sideejuh, invading the town of Ágrí, Ohándukah, Sibi Sindichah and Kót Máchián. Jám Nindó sent a large army under his Vazier Darya Khan[1], which, arriving at the village known by the name of Duruh-i-Kureeb, also known as Joolow Geer or Halúkhar near Sibi, defeated the Mughuls in a pitched battle. Sháh Beg Arghun's brother Abú Muhammad Mirzá was killed in the battle, and the Mughuls fled back to Kandahár, never to return during the reign of Jám Nizámuddín[2]." Page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samma_dynasty; paragraph: "Jam Nizamuddin II". JackkBrown (talk) 21:29, 30 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Because, @JackkBrown, back in 2008, an editor copied the text from Jam Nizamuddin II (see 1) to Samma dynasty (see 2) without properly carrying over the references from the first article. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 21:40, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and fixed those. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 12:52, 31 March 2023 (UTC)