Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2023 October 17

__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ = October 17 =

the ginger man plot
Hi, There is a good plot summary of this book by a Tom Quinn on Amazon Reviews. He probably wouldn't mind writing a similar plot for you. g 173.191.64.185 (talk) 02:27, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * That's an interesting thought. Although I see the review, I don't see a way to contact him.  GoingBatty (talk) 14:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Humble Request for An Article About me on Wikipedia : Dr Punit Sethi
Sir, Please help me in opening my Profile Page on Wikipedia. I have sound credentials; e.g:- Dr Punit Sethi was also declared as an expert of Facebook in 2011

Dr Punit Sethi was also declared as an expert of Facebook in 2011 ..

MRICS https://www.rics.org/networking/find-a-member.html?firstname=PUNIT&lastname=SETHI&town=NOIDA&country=India&member_grade=(MRICS)&expert_witness=&accrediation=&page=1 https://www.rics.org/member-detail-page.html#/0870114 Facebook Expert https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/google-declares-indian-most-popular-facebook-expert/ Fiji https://www.fbcnews.com.fj/news/new-ceo-for-housing-authority-of-fiji/ https://fijivillage.com/news/Bala-to-officiate-at-Davuilevu-Housing-Subdivision-groundbreaking-ceremony-rsk925 https://www.facebook.com/FijianGovernment/photos/a.1728782957154632.1073745074.207532522613024/1728783697154558/ https://fijisun.com.fj/2017/06/20/housing-authority-welcomes-new-ceo/ Hungama Ishq Ka Pyaada https://www.hungama.com/tv-show/ishq-ka-pyaada/104060206/ TOI Baby Feeding Room https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/baby-feeding-room-facilities-for-disabled-at-isbt/articleshow/87836934.cms Dr Punit Sethi was also declared as an expert of Facebook in 2011 .. https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/google-declares-indian-most-popular-facebook-expert/ As an executive with infrastructure expertise with the Ministry of Transport, Government of Delhi- Dr Punit Sethi achieved success during COVIC duties of transporting migrant labors from Delhi especially at Anand Vihar ISBT success. Dr Sethi also got a Baby Feeding Room at Sarai Kale Khan ISBT first in Delhi. The event was well covered by media. Time of India link... https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/baby-feeding-room-facilities-for-disabled-at-isbt/articleshow/87836934.cms

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Baby_Feeding_Room_at_SKK_ISBT_New_Delhi_India_Organized_by_Dr_Punit_Sethi.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dr_Punit_Sethi_arrived_as_CEO_of_Housing_Authority_of_Fiji_in_June_2017.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dr_Punit_Sethi_LSCM.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dr_Punit_Sethi_Photograph.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IBBI_Valuer_Punit_Sethi.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:International_Business_by_Dr_Punit_Sethi.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_book_on_International_Business_by_Dr_Punit_Sethi.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jaypee_Wish_Town_Community_Magazine_Samvada_writing_about_Dr_Punit_Sethi.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jaypee_Wish_Town_Community_Magazine_Samvada_writing_about_Dr_Punit_Sethi_December_2021.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Night_briefing_by_Dr_Punit_Sethi_at_Anand_Vihar_ISBT_New_Delhi_during_Covid_in_April_2021.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dr_Punit_Sethi_With_Honble_Prime_Minister_of_Fiji_in_2017.jpg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Dr_Punit_Sethi_with_Underprivileged_Children_of_Noida.jpg Sir, Please see these few links and help me in creating my Profile Page. Regards, Dr Punit Sethi MRICS Engineer Doctor (talk) 04:18, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * @Engineer Doctor: Dr. Sethi, the Help desk is a place to ask questions about how you can use Wikipedia. If you're still interested in having someone write an article after reading WP:AUTO and An article about yourself isn't necessarily a good thing, you can try using WP:Requested articles.   However, there is no guarantee that any volunteer Wikipedia editor will choose to write an article about you. GoingBatty (talk) 14:29, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia does not contain "profiles" as the word is usually understood. It contains articles about notable subjects, including people. Some ways in which these are different from profiles are:
 * They are not controlled by the subject, and preferably not written by the subject
 * They are based not on what the subject says or wants to say, but on what independent commentators have written about the subject in reliable sources.
 * They may contain material which the subject does not want seen, as long as it has been reliably published. Conversely, there may be material which the subject would very much like to be seen but which may not go in the article because it has not been reliably and independently published.
 * ColinFine (talk) 15:58, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * To be frank, when experienced Wikipedia editors read that somebody is asking for a "profile page", the answer is highly likely to be "no", because the way the question is phrased reveals a deep misunderstanding of the purpose of this encyclopedia. In this specific case, claims of somebody being a Facebook "expert" is in no way an indicator of notability, which is the basic requirement for eligibility for a Wikipedia biography. Cullen328 (talk) 07:23, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Creating an Article
How do you create an article on Wikipedia Oxfordholmes (talk) 05:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @Oxfordholmes, you can create your article using Article Wizard. Please see WP:YFA. Regards. 🛧 Midori No Sora♪ 🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈  ) 05:28, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, Oxfordholmes. Wikipedia is the encyclopaedia that anyone can edit, but in my experience, people who try to create an article before they have learnt how Wikipedia works usually have a miserable and frustrating time: your attempts are unlikely to be successful, and you may have difficulty understanding why.
 * My advice to new editors is always to spend a few weeks or months learning about Wikipedia by making improvements to existing articles before even trying it. Start with copyediting and correcting errors (and be prepared even there to have some of your changes reverted - see WP:BRD) and then graduate to what is by far the most important part of editing Wikipedia, which is finding sources for unsourced information in articles, and learning how to cite them. When you can do that, you will be ready to try writing a new article. ColinFine (talk) 16:07, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

I moved the draft to the main article, is this right?
I just moved Mukimukimanmansu article from draft to main article. Since it has more than three reliable sources, and it has a record of major awards nominations, this is the right thing to do, but this is my first time doing this (Move from draft to main space), so I'd like to ask if I should finish here or fix it more. The article is strange so..... 올해의수상자 (talk) 05:17, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi @올해의수상자. As the original submitter of the draft via the Articles for Creation process, you've sort of circumvented the process by moving it to mainspace yourself and we do discourage this.
 * The test for articles about musicians or bands is at WP:NMUSIC. I think the article just about passes the first criteria, so I think it can stay in mainspace. I have done some minor copyediting.  Qcne  (talk)  08:59, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you @Qcne. In fact, I wasn't the first to make this draft, but I thought this draft was right so I made some revisions and submitted it, but no one responded, so I found a way to process the draft and moved on. Anyway but, I revised the last one and I submitted it, so I was right to be involved. Of course I'm not a new user, I've edited a lot of articles. But I think I'm still learning about Wikipedia, and I think I learned another thing today :)
 * But if you don't mind, there is an article that I submitted a draft, may I ask to you to review it? I submitted it a long time ago, but no one responded. 올해의수상자 (talk) 11:15, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, I'm sorry, you're right - I didn't scroll down in the history long enough to see you weren't the original submitter. What is the link to your other draft?  Qcne  (talk)  11:29, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That's okay! The draft is probably old, and the history might be a bit long, so it could be happen. And thank you for saying that you will review my draft more :)
 * I have three drafts, of which I think Draft:Dabda (band) and Draft: Green Flame Boys may be in the main space because I think there are enough reliable sources.
 * And actually, I have another drafts Draft:Wapddi as well, but this one, I'm not sure. (though of course I pressed submission....lol) Two sources are certainly reliable, but I'm not sure this will prove his notability enough. 올해의수상자 (talk) 11:56, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks- I will take a look at all three and get back to you sometime today.  Qcne  (talk)  12:07, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Link to table row in VE
Is there an option to link a specific table row from Visual Editor itself. I can read in help:tables its possible in code edditor by placing on the beggining of the row ID, but how do I do that in Visual Editor? Juandev (talk) 06:02, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think VisualEditor can place id's. You could instead add anchor in the first cell. It has a similar but not identical effect. If it's a tall cell with vertically centered content then links to the anchor will go to where the content starts and not the top of the cell. I don't know how it compares to a row id in screen readers. A cell anchor may be more easily deleted by accident than a row id. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:34, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thx. Juandev (talk) 05:31, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

My edit to "Winds aloft" keeps getting reverted...
my edit that the winds aloft of the NWS being officially discontinued has been revoked multiple times by Materialscientist... I am unable to contact them directly. I know this change is correct as I am a pilot who was present at the discontinuance of it today, when they made the new website live. There is not article about it's discontinuance as the NWS only mentioned it in a reply to a Facebook user... I have been told my edits are vandalism... Black33beard (talk) 06:18, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey and welcome to Wikipedia. While it may seem unfair, any material added to Wikipedia must have been published previously by a reliable source. This is to make sure everything is as accurate as possible, to protect us as editors, and to ensure our readers are getting accurate information. We also have no way of confirming you are a pilot (PLEASE DO NOT POST PERSONAL INFO TO PROVE SO!). While I might not label your edits as vandalism, I can see why there were reverted. I also suggest talking to Materialscientist. HickoryOughtShirt?4 (talk) 07:10, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Asked and answered at the Teahouse. Tollens (talk) 07:06, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

How to ask for help from a wikiproject
I am in a content dispute where we've (sort-of) agreed that it would be helpful to get clarification of how to interpret policy from a wikiproject - in this case WikiProject Judaism who might be familiar with the type of source material we're discussing and how it's generally treated. My issue is I don't really know how to ask for help from editors on a wikiproject. I'd appreciate any guidance on this! Samuelshraga (talk) 06:30, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * To attract the attention of editors from a specific WikiProject, post a neutral message at the WikiProject's talk page (Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism) and link to the relevant discussion. –– Formal Dude  (talk)  07:12, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Samuelshraga (talk) 08:19, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Tidying up this page
I would like to clean up this page. I am a new Wikipedia editor and have a connection to the subject of the page. The page was generously started by the Women in Red Project and Kay tried to add a photo and some extra details. This was obviously a mistake as it now has lots of warnings about Close Connection of the author. It rather spoils the effort they generously made.

Is it possible for me to help her to make this page clearer, add a photo and to tidy up all of the alerts? How?

If undoing her changes and reverting to the previous state of page is the best plan, how can I suggest/do that?

Thanks Kudos9482 (talk) 06:42, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * You could ask for assistance at WP:COIN and/or at the article's talk page. I went ahead and removed some of the tags as I don't see that they apply anymore. –– Formal Dude  (talk)  06:50, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Referencing errors on University of Houston System
Reference help requested.

I have used reFill tool to fix bare URLs but instead it has created a generic error

Thanks, Ittniguto (talk) 11:47, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Ittniguto, we read, for example, Suppose you want to cite a given source any number of times, and, for editing purposes, you want to name it "UHV Progress Card". Then in any one place where you want to cite it, you write   (thereby "defining" and using it); and in each of the other two, you write simply    (thereby "invoking" it). -- Hoary (talk) 13:10, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for the help I really appreciate it.Ittniguto (talk) 15:48, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Live time
On my talk page, I use a template to show the real time in my timezone. Is there a way to make the page automatically purge once it is opened to show what time it is?

Otherwise, is there any other way to display the live time that updates accordingly?

Thanks,  Coco bb8  (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 13:26, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * This is not possible. Pages are cached for efficiency reasons with no override option. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:40, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I suppose that makes sense!  Coco bb8  (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 13:47, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Does this article meet notability?
Hello, so I'm considering AfDing an article, but I'm not sure whether it meets WP:GNG. On the one hand, it is a pretty new route with not much in-depth coverage, but on the other hand, it has been renumbered and had significant cuts in its route. Since this would be my first AfD, I want to ask for some advice from the community whether this meets WP:GNG. Thank you, —Matr1x-101 (Ping me when replying) { user page (@ commons) - talk }  14:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Looking at the sourcing in the article, I think so.
 * There are 7 sources cited. Source 1 does not count towards notability as it is not independant.  Source 2 appears to constitute significant coverage from MyLondon, which seems to be a reliable source.  Source 3 does not seem to constitute significant coverage.  Source 4 appears to constitute significant coverage from Inside Corydon, which while local, is still significant coverage.  I stopped my in depth analysis there, but based on the first 4 of the 7 sources cited in the article, I would not take it to AFD and would expect the article to be kept if someone did. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 17:02, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the in-depth process! —Matr1x-101 (Ping me when replying) { user page (@ commons) - talk }  20:13, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Literature
When did Madame Bovary made into a film 192.226.252.29 (talk) 16:00, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Hello, and welcome to the help desk. This page is for questions related to editing the English Wikipedia. Several films have been made based on Flaubert's novel and can be found at our article on it. In the future, the reference desk should be used for general knowledge questions. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her) My Talk Page 16:03, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Airline destinations removed
Hi there, I observed that a group of users seemingly made a decision on their own to begin removing airline destination pages en-masse, without clear reasoning as to why or much of a warning. I wanted to see if I could get more information on that - those pages were a resource I made use of regularly and having them removed is hugely detrimental to me. Viero223 (talk) 16:28, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * The basic reason is Wikipedia is not a directory, more discussion here. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Viero223, see this discussion. 199.208.172.35 (talk) 16:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Viero223 See and join in the discussion at the village pump. I really don't think they should be removed while discussion is ongoing. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 16:37, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Do we have a template for ‘topic not in linked article’?
Example: International maritime signal flags links to degrees magnetic, but “degrees magnetic” is not explained in the article Magnetic declination.

I browsed categories such as Category:Wikipedia maintenance templates, Category:Internal link maintenance templates, as well as the templates listed at Template:Not verified in body, but none seems to fit. ◅ Sebastian 18:06, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Maybe the International maritime signal flags article would be best served by changing the text in question from "Course in degrees magnetic" to "Magnetic bearing " or something similar. Folly Mox (talk) 20:00, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


 * Good idea for that article; I'll do that there. However, my general question still remains: Do we have a template for such cases? ◅ Sebastian 20:26, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't think we do, after having done what I consider to be a reasonably thorough search of the Template: namespace. Mostly in such cases I feel like we are supposed to trust ourselves enough to change the link target, change the link text, or remove the link. As a follow up to the initial example, I've learnt that Magnetic bearing is a mechanical thing like a ball bearing, and won't be a good two words to pipe into the link Magnetic declination. I'm also wondering if Magnetic declination is really the best target for the link, or if Bearing (angle) would be better. I don't really know anything about navigation, or much about magnetism, or what the International maritime signal flags are specified as conveying in nautical terms. Folly Mox (talk) 20:44, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * There are some cases where the link is to the right place, but the target article doesn't deal with the topic at hand, and I don't have the ability to update the target article. What one really wants in those cases is some way to flag it at the target article, where someone who is able to fix it is more likely to look... Furius (talk) 20:54, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Interesting point. Do you think, then, we need a template for that application? ◅ Sebastian 21:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I've actually just located Template:mnl, which outputs:. It has zero transclusions in mainspace and one in talkspace, but it's very close to what you're suggesting.As to flagging something like this on the target article, a talk page message might not be the worst idea, if a bit old fashioned. As seen in this discussion, specialist knowledge provided by User:Martin of Sheffield was required to suss this issue, and people with the correct topic area expertise are likely to be the kinds of people watching the talk page. Folly Mox (talk) 22:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * a talk page message might not be the worst idea - i thought so, and did that in the target article's talk page where someone who is able to fix it is more likely to look, as Furius suggested. But when nobody replied in three years, i thought an inline template might draw more attention, all the while informing readers so they wouldn't waste time searching for something that isn't there. ◅ Sebastian 05:49, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Well I guess a talk page message might sometimes be the worst idea. Should have done my research before suggesting that course of action 🙃
 * No worries, I can think of even worse ideas! 😛 ◅ Sebastian 21:13, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Three years, and the page has like 130 watchers and the primary contributor has been consistently active since 2019.I feel like I heard somewhere that Growth Team intend to roll out the links structured task on en.wp by the end of the year. Maybe soon we'll be able to delink these bad pipes and have the built-in AI suggest a better target for us.Till then, we could always just make a template. It's probably pretty easy to make, and seems like it would generate an easy backlog for people to hop on. Folly Mox (talk) 06:08, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Nice, that's just what I had in mind. What shall we call our baby? Just “not there”? (I'm avoiding the word “article” since conceivably one might also use the template for other targets, in which case the template could take a parameter with the default value “article”.) That said, another concern might be the objection raised by Martin of Sheffield below: One might say that the topic is covered, missing the point of the maintenance note that it's not apparent. To counter that, maybe we should write “term” instead of “topic”. ◅ Sebastian 21:13, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Hm, for this maintenance tag maybe? That gets across both the case where a better article could be the link target (expanding the coverage from piped links to all internal links) as well as the case where the topic so linked is unexplained or poorly explained at the target article, avoiding pronouncements such as "Target" may not be immediately understood by all readers upon initial viewing, though, and the tag could also be mistaken as a request for general improvements at the target article, but placed on a separate page for some reason. Maybe ? or ? Folly Mox (talk) 08:56, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your three improvement suggestions. I'll go with “Template:Improve target”, so let's continue the discussion at Template talk:Improve target. I also added a hover text to include your considerations. ◅ Sebastian 10:06, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for checking. Yes, your reason why we don't have one makes sense; that's what I've done for many years. I just wasn't sure it did mean “magnetic bearing” until you pointed that out. Part of why I asked here was that I had thought of creating such a template, but I now realize it's probably not needed often enough. Thanks also for pointing out the other meaning of “magnetic bearing”. No worries, I used an anchor instead. But I also will add a hatnote to the magnetic bearing article.
 * As for your last point, it seems to me it's good as it is, since “absolute bearing” does not mean the same; it still can be magnetic or not. ◅ Sebastian 21:03, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Actually Magnetic declination does explain degrees magnetic, but not very clearly unless you already know the theory. See the sections "Non-adjustable compasses" and "Navigation".  Bearing (angle) has: "If the north used as reference is the true geographical north then the bearing is a true bearing whereas if the reference used is magnetic north then the bearing is a magnetic bearing" which is also not very clear unless you already have an idea about the subject.
 * FYI, the magnetic poles do not correspond directly with the geographic poles, for instance in 2020 the north magnetic pole was at 86.494°N 162.867°E. What this means is that a compass will point to somewhere other than the true north pole, the amount varies depending upon where you are and also with time.  There are also local anomalies (for example caused by deposits of iron ore) which have to be taken into account.  However a map or chart should give the variance or declination at a given date, and the rate of change.  As a (fictional) example "variance 2°W (2020) decreasing annually by 1°" means that in 2023 the variance in that location would be 1°E.  It's important to know which you are talking about, for instance (using the example above) 183° true is 182° magnetic, hence the use of the Alpha flag (true) and Charlie (magnetic).  HTH, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:10, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Have a look at Heading (navigation) which gives a better description of true vs magnetic. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC)