Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 April 14

__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ = April 14 =

How does one cite a lack of a webpage
I am currently trying to clean up IBM Rational Rose, but many references to it are no longer valid. Additionally, since those links were added, the software has been taken off the market. The only "proof" of that, however, is that there is no proof (i.e. all market/storefront pages have been removed from the internet). Would it be advisable to cite a source for its removal, and if so, how would one do that? (For example, adding a reference to a search engine and its lack of content?) Thanks, Alpha2 5232 (talk) 00:28, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * "No longer valid" is not the same thing as no long accessible; the latter you just tag with the dead link template. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:51, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, not only are they no longer accessible, but the problem is that their existence used to prove that it is on the market. Without the links, one can reasonably assume that the product is no longer for sale. My question is not "How to deal with dead links", but "how can one cite those dead links as evidence that the product no longer exists". Alpha2 5232 (talk) 11:12, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @Alpha2 5232 A bit of digging around in IBM webpages got me to this blog. I think that such WP:ABOUTSELF source would be OK for your purpose. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Singular or plural
Star Trek has a "Films" section, with a "television film" subsection. Currently there is only one article that would go there. Is it correct to use "television film" then, or should it be "Television films" anyway? Cambalachero (talk) 01:10, 14 April 2024 (UTC)


 * @Cambalachero: Hi there! I don't see any guidance at WP:NAVBOX, WP:NAV, or Navbox, but it's possible I missed it.  If there's no guidance, then you can ask at Template talk:Star Trek, or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Star Trek if you don't get an answer there.  Live long and prosper! GoingBatty (talk) 03:32, 14 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I asked here because template talk pages are rarely watched, and the question was more generic than Star Trek-specific. Cambalachero (talk) 04:22, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * My personal inclination would be to use "films" even though there is only one of them (so far). Note that we are advised to use the heading "External links" in articles even if only one link is present. Deor (talk) 14:40, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Pres. Marcos was not a commie.
Communist mummies 2A00:F29:248:FF2A:E51C:40C0:F1D8:4806 (talk) 02:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Agreed. I will remove it shortly. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:37, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Current affairs on WP
I need some clarification on news in WP articles. A few years ago I was advised that WP is not a news outlet, after I mentioned an event in a particular article, but now I see an article on 2024 Bondi Junction stabbings. So when is a current affairs event a valid item and when is it not? Sardaka (talk) 10:29, 14 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi Sardaka. The primary guideline to determine whether an event is suitable for a Wikipedia article is Notability (events). As it says in the nutshell, An event is presumed to be notable if it has lasting major consequences or affects a major geographical scope, or receives significant non-routine coverage that persists over a period of time. Coverage should be in multiple reliable sources with national or global scope. Alpha3031 (t • c) 10:36, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @Sardaka Wikipedia's mainpage has a section for "In the news", which often does a better job of informing readers than any one newspaper or broadcaster would do. That's because we wait until other published sources report on a topic and only then create the article here. Also, as our editors are from all around the world, we tend to have a broader perspective than any individual source and we should write neutrally. Hence I find that, a few days after any event, Wikipedia is an excellent place to read about something. Mike Turnbull (talk) 15:25, 14 April 2024 (UTC)


 * @Sardaka, one of the reasons Wikipedia avoids calling itself a news outlet/source is that it does not cover current events comprehensively. It cannot do this because all material is contributed only by volunteers, so there is no 'staff' tasked with the responsibility of ensuring comprehensive coverage.
 * If it did so label itself, people could complain (rightly) that it was not covering event X or Y, and was therefore biased. See NOTNEWS. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 151.227.134.31 (talk) 16:30, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Problems posting here reported to me, ie "Unable to stash Parsoid HTML"
- 97.113.173.101 (talk) 15:15, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

I advised User: Kawrno Baba to post here and after trying they told me "I wen there and clicked both 'Ask question' and 'Add a topic' buttons, both times there was a popup written 'Unable to stash Parsoid HTML.'" Doug Weller  talk 12:50, 14 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I had the same issue. It seems from a quick Google search that there is no documentation of this issue anywhere else before today. Mapgenius (talk) 13:20, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Also getting the same issue. I have to log out and log back in every time I want to edit something. --Jnglmpera (talk) 13:52, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Facing the same issue for editing, "Add topic" on talk etc. Redtigerxyz  Talk 13:55, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm having the same issue. I get the "Unable to stash Parsoid HTML." on Chrome on Windows 11.  Logging out and logging in is not a workaround.  On Android, I get a different error.
 * ReferenceMan (talk) 13:58, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * On Android, I'm getting: "Error, can't load the editor".
 * ReferenceMan (talk) 14:02, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Looks like I *can* edit if I'm logged out.
 * ReferenceMan (talk) 14:13, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I am having the same issue. GoutComplex (talk) 14:01, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * There's a topic on this at WP:VPT - best to take reports and discussion there. 97.113.173.101 (talk) 14:17, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Same error there as well. Kawrno Baba (talk) 14:19, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Same here. Isthmus55 (talk) 14:20, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Same error reported here. Cheers, gavre  (al. PenangLion) (talk) 14:33, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm also having this issue. However, these things still work for me:
 * Undoing edits
 * Adding comments to Talk pages
 * Creating pages
 * Earlier, I logged out to see if the visual editor would load and it was normal. I didn't publish anything.
 * I've also found out that after making one of the "allowed" edits, then I'm able to click on the "edit" button once without issues. After clicking the button, I'm able to edit a page and then publish changes. However, if I click the button a second time for a different page, the visual editor doesn't work again until I make another edit that doesn't use the visual editor. That Tired Tarantula   Burrow  14:41, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Same error encountered as well. Unfortunately all of the help pages are not giving any solutions. KANLen09 (talk) 14:43, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I got same error on hi wiki. राज कुमार (talk)  15:01, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Unable to use visual edit on any of my devices. Same issue. I thought it is my internet problem. Grabup (talk) 15:20, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Technical discussion since January, when it first occurred, if anyone is interested. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:29, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Technical discussion since January, when it first occurred, if anyone is interested. Mike Turnbull (talk) 16:29, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

County of UK birthplace for people born before boundary changes
I'm aware that UK counties are a contentious issue. An anon user and I are in danger of edit-warring over the birthplace of Kevin Rowland, who was born in Wednesfield in 1953. At that time, Wednesfield was officially in Staffordshire but it's currently in the City of Wolverhampton. Which should be quoted in the lede and infobox? I tried MOS:BIRTHPLACE but there was no guidance. I imagine this crops up a lot but I couldn't find a definitive guideline anywhere. I don't have much time for county traditionalists so if only one polity is quoted I think it should be the current one, but I can see the justification for formations like "Wednesfield, Wolverhampton (then Staffordshire)" or "Wednesfield, Staffordshire (now Wolverhampton)". Dave.Dunford (talk) 15:17, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I've implemented your second suggestion. One of the two is the only way forward, and I would suggest that the county at the time of birth is the one to mention about hist birth, followed by the current one to help our readers find it.  Given the way governments have been reorganising counties over the last few decades, it does make for an easier change when they decide to carve up Wolverhampton! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 15:52, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Sensible compromise. Let's hope the anon IP accepts it. Dave.Dunford (talk) 16:34, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * As a broader rule of thumb, what a place was called on the date of their birth has to come first. I get this with American immigrants all the time: "Friedrik Veeblefetzer was born in Glauschreik, Silesia, Kingdom of Prussia (now Gliŝrik, Poland)" is the way it's usually done. "The current one" is a form of recentism, ignoring the context within which the subject lived their life. -- Orange Mike &#124;  Talk  16:56, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Another alternative is to add a little more detail, as I did at Rowland Hill Berkeley. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:27, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Template:Infobox person has quite a lot to say about this, although specifically relating to infoboxes. The 2 most relevant sentences seem to be "Use the name of the birthplace at the time of birth, e.g.: Saigon (prior to 1976) or Ho Chi Minh City (post-1976)." and "What the place may correspond to on a modern map is a matter for an article's main text." - Arjayay (talk) 20:35, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks all. Sounds like my antipathy to county traditionalists was colouring my judgement. Dave.Dunford (talk) 10:06, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Indian Motocycle Manufacturing Company
Indian Motocycle Manufacturing Company was moved during a move request. How can I make sure that the requested move notice stays at the top of the page? --Jax 0677 (talk) 16:23, 14 April 2024 (UTC)


 * It looks like it still is. TypoEater (talk) 13:50, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Math is broken
I was doing research on Julia sets when I saw that all of the math displays, even Pi, are broken and show as the wikitext underneath. Is this a known glitch? Is there a fix? PLMMJ (talk) 17:28, 14 April 2024 (UTC)


 * I just checked Julia set and wasn't able to verify this on desktop or mobile versions. How are you viewing Wikipedia? Are there any user scripts installed or other changes to the way you view the site that changes how it is displayed? Recon  rabbit  18:39, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Using the Android app, some of the maths displays have abnormally huge font sizes on my end, but everything appears readable, at least. I haven't yet investigated further. Rummskartoffel 21:30, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't have any user scripts that I know of unless Adblock Plus is one. I'm on Vector Legacy 2010 if that helps. Reloading the page multiple times and leaving and returning to it has done nothing. What I see is along the lines of "These sets $ F_{i} $ are the Fatou domains of $ f(z) $, and their union is the Fatou set $ \operatorname {F} (f) $ of $ f(z) $. Each of the Fatou domains contains at least one critical point of $ f(z) $, that is, a (finite) point z satisfying $ f'(z)=0 $, or $ f(z)=\infty $ if the degree of the numerator $ p(z) $ is at least two larger than the degree of the denominator $ q(z) $, or if $ f(z)=1/g(z)+c $ for some c and a rational function $ g(z) $ satisfying this condition." PLMMJ (talk) 22:05, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It's also broken on other pages, including Mandelbrot set ("...whether the sequence $ f_{c}(0),f_{c}(f_{c}(0)),\dotsc $ goes to infinity. Treating the real and imaginary parts of $ c $ as image coordinates on the complex plane, pixels may then be colored according to how soon the sequence $ |f_{c}(0)|,|f_{c}(f_{c}(0))|,\dotsc $ crosses an arbitrarily chosen threshold...") and Pi ("For example, one may directly compute the arc length of the top half of the unit circle, given in Cartesian coordinates by the equation $ {\textstyle x^{2}+y^{2}=1} $, as the integral:
 * $ {\displaystyle \pi =\int _{-1}^{1}{\frac {dx}{\sqrt {1-x^{2}}}}.} $
 * An integral such as this was adopted as the definition of π by Karl Weierstrass, who defined it directly as an integral in 1841.") Some symbols are showing, like the F for function and the symbol for Pi, but only outside of math sections. I should have put that in the other comment. PLMMJ (talk) 22:10, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * PLMMJ, check . If that's set to "LaTeX source", try the other options. Rummskartoffel 14:48, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Closure requests
Is there a place to request the closure of a discussion that has an obvious consensus? I'm aware that Closure requests exists, but it explicitly states not to request closures for discussions with an obvious consensus. I don't feel comfortable closing this discussion because I participated in it, but it's been going since January and the discussion has gone stale: Talk:Audacy. TipsyElephant (talk) 19:22, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * According to note 4 at Closing_discussions says Does that help?  RudolfRed (talk) 19:33, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

how do i get my ip address taken down
hi all, i accidentally posted without logging in and want to get my ip taken down. who do i contact? NotQualified (talk) 20:30, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Contact the Oversight team: Oversight RudolfRed (talk) 20:35, 14 April 2024 (UTC)