Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 January 26

__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ = January 26 =

Help downloading WP:AGF page to a pdf?
--OhioStandard (talk) 00:34, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * merged section titled Saving/downloading a Wiki page as a PDF
 * hi and welcome to the Teahouse! you may save any page to a PDF by clicking the Tools dropdown and select the Download as PDF option. happy editing! &#128156;  melecie   talk  - 00:59, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * re-ping: @ &#128156; melecie   talk  - 01:00, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Watchlist - notifications of death
Is there a way to configure notifications from my Watchlist to receive notification ONLY for those that have been updated to indicate individual has died? Starcomed (talk) 03:08, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi @Starcomed, as far as I know, that is impossible. However, the Recent deaths page is very helpful. Best, @Avishai11 Avishai11 (talk) 21:37, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Agonizing over Agony column
Hi, and hope you're well! Agony column is a dab (none of the topics listed have an article with "agony column" in the title), and redirects to Advice column. What's the best venue for determining if there is a primary topic? Thank you, Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 04:54, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I redirected Agony Column to Agony column. If it's hard to decide if there is a primary topic, then there is not a primary topic, and the dab page should carry the topic title. -Arch dude (talk) 14:40, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

What is wrong with being an “indiscriminate collection of information”?
What is the rationale behind strictly sticking to “notable” information, and pruning everything else? Unless I overlooked something, I don’t think it’s been explicitly explained. ZFT (talk) 07:04, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * See WP:NOT and WP:TRIVIA.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 08:26, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Collecting reliable information is a good thing. Not being a steaming heap of every random bullshit one can find is also a good thing. --Hob Gadling (talk) 08:46, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Tomorrow morning I shall make a journey of 80 km or so by train. The relevant times are important to me. I shall get them from a reliable source; and, if I wanted to, I could get them from several reliable sources. This is not bullshit, let alone random bullshit. The congeries of information so gathered would not steam. The information would be neither malodorous nor noxious. But it would have little or no interest to more than a minuscule number of people, and so it shouldn't be in this encyclopedia. OK? -- Hoary (talk) 09:33, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's right. There are more reliable sources online for train timetables. Even if Wikipedia tried to provide them, they might not be updated, and would be unreliable. Maproom (talk) 11:31, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * An RS suggests that someone likes jelly babies, without streamlining, we are putting that completely irrelevant info into the article.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:47, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * See Signal-to-noise ratio. An 'indiscriminate collection of information' is useless as a means of communicating useful information. Which is supposedly what Wikipedia is for. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:51, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Somebody has to maintain that information, to keep it (among other things) neutral, and unvandalized, and accurate, and up-to-date. The number of volunteer-hours is Wikipedia's most limiting factor, and we can't keep up with the subjects we can (mostly) all agree we should cover.  The sort of people who think it's a good idea to have articles about train schedules on the morning of 27 January 2024 tend to expect somebody else to put in the work to maintain them. —Cryptic 15:06, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Change lenguage
Good morning everyone, This is my first time on Wikipedia. First of all, thank you very much for this community that does such an important work.

I would like to ask a question. Due to my ignorance as a beginner, I started an article in Spanish Wikipedia but I wrote it in English. I wonder if there is a way to rescue that article to publish it in English Wiki.

Also, yesterday I started a draft article in English Wikipedia and today when I wanted to continue it, it disappeared. Do you know how I can save drafts?

One last question. In English Wikipedia I was given a mentor. Is it possible to have one in this encyclopaedia?

Thanks

Sara SaraCoelho25 (talk) 09:30, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * You seem to be addressing your question to the Spanish Wikipedia; you'll have to ask about mentors at the Spanish Wikipedia there. Regarding your draft, I gather that it was deleted on the Spanish Wikipedia; you should be able to ask a Spanish Wikipedia administrator to send you a copy of the draft so you can then use our Article Wizard to submit it here. 331dot (talk) 09:36, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much!!! SaraCoelho25 (talk) 09:40, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * SaraCoelho25, if you started a draft article in English-language Wikipedia while logged in as "SaraCoelho25", then you didn't "publish" (save) it. (No draft of yours has been deleted.) If your draft in Spanish-language Wikipedia survives, you can copy it and paste it to a draft here in English-language Wikipedia. But I suggest that you read, and think hard about what's said in, Help:YFA. -- Hoary (talk) 09:41, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Sam Williams ( UK Record Producer/Artist) Page Deletion
Dear Wiki people,

I wished to add content to Sam Williams' (UK Record Producer/Artist) Wikipedia page, only to find that the page is no longer available.

I don't understand why the page of someone with a forty year career as a multi-platinum record producer, songwriter, and award winning film composer, with over fifty albums with some of the world's most notable artists (including Supergrass, Plan B, Kula Shaker, The Noisettes, Gaz Coombes) has been removed.

There is a new page for a young American musician and producer with the same name, but the page for Sam Williams the UK record producer/artist is no longer available.

There is still a link available through Wikipedia as a disambiguation, but this does not go to Sam Williams the UK record producer/artist article, it goes instead to the article for Mark Gardener, who co-fronted the band The Animalhouse with Sam Williams.

Could you please advise me as to how the article for Sam Williams' (UK Record Producer/Artist) can be reinstated or if it needs to be resubmitted as a new article?

I look forward to hearing from you.

Warmest regards,

Hari Hari Teah (talk) 09:45, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * First, you should go back to your original account and get unblocked. Then, start a draft. See WP:GNG for what Wikipedia is looking for. Usedtobecool ☎️ 09:50, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Hari Teah (talk) 09:59, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * (ec) You apparently aren't the only one editing about him, someone saying they represent him is as well. Are you associated with him?  See my response to them. 331dot (talk) 09:51, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

The page appears to be at Sam Williams (record producer). Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:47, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Now nominated for deletion. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:02, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Notifications when a change is made
Is there anyway to receive email notifications when a change is made to a certain wikipedia page? Ignitefire123 (talk) 11:18, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * See Help:Watchlist and enable "Email me when a page or a file on my watchlist is changed" at Special:Preferences. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:26, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi @Ignitefire123, here's a link: Help:Email notification. This should be helpful. Best, @Avishai11 Avishai11 (talk) 11:27, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Editing a template (or possibly templates)
I've been contacted by a seismologist at the International Seismological Centre (isc) to let me know that links to the isc mirror site will soon be unavailable. Links to this site are generated by template:infobox earthquake, and template:EQ-isc-link. I suspect that the former actually uses the latter but I'm pretty lost when it comes to the nuts and bolts of templates. The urls to the isc main site will still work so I'm looking to update the template(s) to target the main site. It should be a simple fix, if only I knew how. If anyone can help or point me to where I might get help, I would be grateful. Thanks, Mikenorton (talk) 11:21, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up. We usually discover dead sites when we already have a lot of dead links. I have updated EQ-isc-link. It may take a while before the update automatically propagates to all articles using the template. When that happens I will look for other links at Special:LinkSearch/isc-mirror.iris.washington.edu. It's currently full of links which will automatically update. See 1931 Hawke's Bay earthquake for an example where the infobox link on ISC event has already updated. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:46, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Fantastic! Many many thanks Domenicodigiacomo (talk) 11:48, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I have also updated Short-isc. No other templates make links to mirror.iris.washington.edu. Around 80 articles make links directly and will need individual updates. I will do that later. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:02, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Brilliant, thanks so much for sorting this out. Mikenorton (talk) 12:15, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * cheers Domenicodigiacomo (talk) 12:32, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I have now updated all English Wikipedia articles which linked to http://isc-mirror.iris.washington.edu. Four articles at Special:LinkSearch/ftp://isc-mirror.iris.washington.edu still have an FTP link to ftp://isc-mirror.iris.washington.edu/pub/pdf/bulletin/summary/BulletinSummary20107_pub.pdf, a 55 MB file. This file is not at ftp://www.isc.ac.uk/pub/pdf/bulletin/summary/BulletinSummary20107_pub.pdf. Do you have a working link that is expected to be stable? Google found https://zenodo.org/records/998593 but I don't know the status of that site. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:04, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I would say replace ftp://isc-mirror.iris.washington.edu/pub/pdf/bulletin/summary/BulletinSummary20107_pub.pdf
 * with the overview page:
 * http://publications.isc.ac.uk/index.php/summary/issue/view/3 Domenicodigiacomo (talk) 12:03, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

This may affect other Wikipedias, Wikidata and Wikimedia Commons. What's the best way to check, and/ or disseminate the news? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:41, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * @Pigsonthewing: On each of these template pages is a section showing which other Wikipedias use the template. You could try posting a note on the template talk pages on the other Wikipedias with the details of the changes made at the English Wikipedia.  Or you could be bold and make the changes on the other Wikipedias. GoingBatty (talk) 00:43, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Taking out RSS from the page that discusses Hindu terrorism.
Recently, I stumbled upon a webpage discussing Hindu terrorism, and I was surprised to see the name of RSS (Rashtriya Swyamsevak Sangh) mentioned there. It should be noted that RSS is a nationalist organization, not a terrorist organization. I kindly ask for the prompt removal of its name from that page. Kunal582002 (talk) 12:00, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * The place to discuss this is the Talk page of the relevant article. The statements in our article on Hindu terrorism are referenced to WP:Reliable sources. What is the reliable source for your assertion? Shantavira|feed me 12:15, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

I regarded the issue in Talk:S but no one replied
I have mentioned about the change in the short introduction to be in a full length, not simplified one. For example, while most explanations about the other alphabetical letters are written in sixteenth, seventeenth, eighteenth, the letter of S in 19th. 2001:EE0:4BC2:7C20:3DA6:7723:C1A5:5A75 (talk) 13:32, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * I have made that change. Thanks for letting us know. Shantavira|feed me 14:37, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I see nothing changed. I would like to mean the short introduction entitled '19th letter of English alphabet' to 'nineteenth letter of English alphabet' from overlook to maintain the synchronization and consistency across alphabetical articles. 2001:EE0:4BC2:7C20:3DA6:7723:C1A5:5A75 (talk) 14:42, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The term "19th" does not now appear anywhere in the article: it may be that you are viewing a cached version of it from before Shantivara's edit. Try clearing your caches. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 176.24.47.60 (talk) 18:32, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * It's in the short description - that's what they mean by "short introduction". 57.140.16.1 (talk) 18:47, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Done. LittlePuppers (talk) 23:21, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * On the one hand, consistency is good. On the other hand, the old short description "19th letter in the English alphabet" was 35 characters long, and the new one "Nineteenth letter in the English alphabet" is 41, exceeding the recommended length of 40 at WP:SHORTDESC, so the short description will be truncated in some contexts. Just as a context-free ordinal, MOS:NUMERAL says that either is acceptable. Regarding consistency, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, T, U, V, and W all use digits in the lead sentence but a spelled-out ordinal in the short description (which seems to be the opposite of what it should be, since several of the short descriptions exceed 40 characters). But right now S is the only one of these that uses a spelled-out ordinal in the lead sentence. It seems to me that it would be better if we used digits in the short description for all these articles to meet the length guideline, and maybe a spelled-out ordinal in the lead sentence. CodeTalker (talk) 01:48, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * That all seems reasonable, does anyone else have thoughts/objections? LittlePuppers (talk) 02:02, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and I think shorten the position is a brilliant consider. 2001:EE0:4BC6:65D0:3DA6:7723:C1A5:5A75 (talk) 11:14, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'm going to go through and do this. LittlePuppers (talk) 22:27, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

What happened to italics?
This is just weird. On any number of Wiki pages, the italics have disappeared. If I go into edit mode, I can see the " '' " that's supposed to render italics -- but the italics AREN'T rendered, and I can't seem to bring them back. What gives? Jhlechner (talk) 15:48, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * @Jhlechner, I'm not seeing any issues. What device and what skin are you using to access Wikipedia? 57.140.16.1 (talk) 16:10, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm on a Mac, using Chrome. Weirdly, I can see the italics when I use Safari! Jhlechner (talk) 16:57, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @Jhlechner, does the same problem occur if you log out (or open a private window) and then view Wikipedia in Chrome? 57.140.16.1 (talk) 17:12, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, it does. I logged out and logged back in, and opened a private window -- makes no difference. I see italics when I view in Safari, and no italics (on the same page!) in Chrome. Jhlechner (talk) 23:23, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @Jhlechner, sounds like it's a software issue involving your specific setup (Mac OS + Chrome), so there's probably not much anyone can do on Wikipedia's end. If you post over at WP:VPT, where the techies hang out, someone might be able to pinpoint the specific issue; you could also submit a bug report to the Chrome folks, using whatever method they've set up. 57.140.16.1 (talk) 15:27, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I figured it out! It was an extension called SyncWatch. When I deleted the extension, my italics came back! Jhlechner (talk) 02:00, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Did you turn off syntax highlighting? (click the icon next to the Advanced menu dropdown).
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:15, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:15, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Arv disappeared on my tool bar
I have been doing quite a lot of work and suddenly it disappeared why •C y b erw o l f• talk? 16:43, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Hi @Cyberwolf, please elaborate more on what the situation is. Can you please explain? Best, @Avishai11 Avishai11 (talk) 21:45, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * It seems to have fixed itself •C y b erw o l f• talk? 21:48, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * What is Arv? Is it Twinkle/doc? What else is on the tool bar Arv disappeared from? PrimeHunter (talk) 21:47, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Formatting around infoboxes
Our Project uses an infobox template across several thousand articles. While normal body text is expressed fine to the left of the infobox, certain sections, bulleted lists for example, are pushed to below the end of the infobox, leaving an often large gap of whitespace. How do we force the bulleted lists (and other affected content) to the left of the infobox, and avoid this whitespace? See this version of the Beta Upsilon Chi article for an example. Jax MN (talk) 18:01, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * We may have fixed it with a workaround, see Beta Upsilon Chi, but I'm still unclear on the correct structure. Does bracketing the bulleted list with and then with a closing col-end tag trigger the correct formatting?  One of our fellow editors removed an especially long field within the infobox, which may also have had an effect. Jax MN (talk) 18:09, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Try using, then the data, then  . See div col for details. -- Verbarson  talkedits 21:12, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The dynamic flowing of columns-list and div-col to fit screen-width is a nice improvement over a hard-coded number of columns. The underlying original problem is that col-begin uses a  table. That pushes itself to below the infobox because it can't take up "100% of the width" if there is something else taking up part of the width. DMacks (talk) 13:42, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Reference list cast adrift in TP/Vikings
Hi, my post TP/Vikings/LegacyII has begotten a ref list that belongs to a posting above, it seems. Not clever with formatting, so if anyone who is and cares about ze Wikings could drop by for a quick fix, much appr. TIA. T 84.208.65.62 (talk) 18:23, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅, I think this was what the editor was looking for. Cmr08 (talk) 18:40, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi, thx, prfct. T 84.208.65.62 (talk) 21:56, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Empty and missing values of parameters
Suppose that there's a template that has this parameter:

It would output "AAA" if the parameter has any value, and "BBB" if the parameter is empty or missing.


 * → BBB
 * → BBB
 * → AAA

Is there a way to make it treat an "empty" value as a value, and not as a lack thereof? In effect, that would produce:


 * → BBB
 * → AAA
 * → AAA

--Theurgist (talk) 18:48, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * * Pppery * it has begun... 19:31, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Thank you, that works. --Theurgist (talk) 23:30, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

Referencing errors on Norderney
Reference help requested.

Hi, i would like to post a reference to the DWD (Deutscher Wetterdienst) Open data page. But i don`t know how to that in wikipedia. This is the file i`m refering to, it is a zip file https://opendata.dwd.de/climate_environment/CDC/observations_germany/climate/daily/kl/historical/tageswerte_KL_03631_18580301_20221231_hist.zip

I found much older weather data here for the island of Norderney, going back to 1858 while temperature measurements commencing in September 1897.

While the present climate data records in the table start from 1947 onwards.

Can you help me out?

Thanks, Froggo1980 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Froggo1980 (talk • contribs) 20:09, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * @Froggo1980: Did you try using cite web or a different citation template? If so, what parameters did you use?  Did you consider a simple external link such as   GoingBatty (talk) 00:36, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Official websites
should the official website of an entity be linked in the external links section, if its already in the infobox? 83.168.137.1 (talk) 20:24, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, if my parsing of WP:ELOFFICIAL is correct: RudolfRed (talk) 21:34, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * thanks, i was looking for such help page, i think u are parsing it correctly 83.168.137.1 (talk) 00:42, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Closing the Media Viewer is impossible?
Hello. I noticed some issue with the Media Viewer of MW (i'm sure: this problem was not happened in the past). I cannot close it when i opened it after scrolling the page down (i mean going back to the article, not disabling it), because the page header covers it's close button. Are there any way to hide the header when the media viewer is opened? (This is a serious bug, it'll be better if someone can hide it when it's opened for everyone, not with some user-script.) RuzDD (talk) 21:30, 26 January 2024 (UTC)


 * @RuzDD: What device are you using? Could you please give an example of an article and image where you are experiencing this?  Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 00:33, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @GoingBatty Firefox on Windows 10 PC, that happens on even the photo in this page. RuzDD (talk) 00:59, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Extra note: my header is sticky. RuzDD (talk) 01:51, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @RuzDD: I just had a similar experience that I could duplicate with the image on this page.
 * I click on the image above to go to File:The_Batley_Frontier_-_geograph.org.uk_-_413091.jpg and can see the close button.
 * I click on the image itself and it expands to cover the whole screen. Even when scrolling, I cannot see the close button.
 * I used my browser back button to go back to the help desk page.
 * Does this work for you? GoingBatty (talk) 01:56, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, i cannot see the close button on the in-page media viewer and that's the problem. I don't remember this from past so i think a recent interface change must be caused this. RuzDD (talk) 02:03, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @RuzDD: Just to clarify - does using your browser's back button resolve the issue? GoingBatty (talk) 02:12, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @GoingBatty Yes (sorry for late answer), but the close button is easier to use and must not be covered by header. RuzDD (talk) 12:14, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't think there is a Close button on that page. When I open the image by clicking on it, it opens https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/The_Batley_Frontier_-_geograph.org.uk_-_413091.jpg, and the only content is the image, which does not fill my screen - there is a black border around it, and above that is the usual browser header. The only way back is the browser Back button. I do not remember there ever being a Close 'X' button for images displayed in this specific way. -- Verbarson talkedits 21:03, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * That's the builtin media support of the browser and not the subject of this topic. If you look at (if you not disabled media viewer) you probably see a close button at the topright corner, now click it and click the image again after scrolling the page down a few lines. If your header is sticky like mine, you must see that button is covered by the header. RuzDD (talk) 22:13, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Email
Hello again! A few days ago I asked a question and some users tried helping me solve this problem, but the discussion was archived before a solution could be found. The question is here: Help_desk/Archives/2024_January_22. Can you tell me if there's a better place to ask for help about this matter? Jeannejacques (talk) 22:40, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @Jeannejacques: It appears some issues were resolved in that discussion. Do you have any current issues besides the fact that you cannot email yourself through Wikipedia? GoingBatty (talk) 00:32, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Well, actually the problem is that the email feature doesn't work for anyone, not just for myself, I tried everything they told me but the problem wasn't solved. Jeannejacques (talk) 08:11, 27 January 2024 (UTC) 'EDIT' I think the problems is sloved now: after adding the last message, a notification appeared saying that I've made 10 edits; I tried sending an email to myself and I did it! This was the problem, for some reason I couldn't send emails even to myself before making 10 edits. I still wonder why I was able to send an email to another user who replied to my previous question, probably he was on a higher level of users. Well, thank everyone who gave me a hand! Jeannejacques (talk) 08:22, 27 January 2024 (UTC)