Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 July 13

__EXPECTED_UNCONNECTED_PAGE__ = July 13 =

Family categories
I was creating a category for the acting/politics family, Category:Lapid family (Philippines), and I am wondering, do you add the films that one member of the family starred into the category? And do you add the positions that one member of the family held? All answers will be appreciated.

Thanks,  02:23, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Citation needed within article?
An editor removed a "Citation needed" template from Faye Dunaway with the edit summary "Already indexed right here on Wiki". The content in question is "Preminger's film did not meet critical or box-office success, but Dunaway retained notice enough to earn a Golden Globe Award nomination for New Star of the Year."

I assume that Verifiability means that verification should appear in the article in which the content appears -- not just somewhere on Wikipedia. Am i wrong in that assumption? Eddie Blick (talk) 03:48, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * you are correct: Wikipedia is not considered a reliable source for itself. The citation(s) must be copied from those other articles into this article. Please assume good faith (WP:AGF) and work together with the other editor to replace the "Citation needed" template with the appropriate citations(s) from the other articles. The article's talk page is a good place to collaborate. -Arch dude (talk) 04:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you, @Arch dude. I appreciate that advice. Eddie Blick (talk) 21:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

New user playing with multiple accounts
Should I have reported  (userlist) to some admin or is an uw-agf-sock warning enough as I have done? Not that I expect to run into exactly this situation again - and posting about it here already brings awareness in this case.

These clearly violate the socking policy, I only warned because they have not edited outside userspace. – 2804:F1...BC:2770 (talk) 03:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Bare URL and dead link.
I've recently been trying to expand bare referances. One issue I've come across is articles with permanantly dead bare links. I've seen some editors label these "dead link" and others with "bare url". Should these links be tagged as dead, bare, or both? In case I wasn't clear, here is an example of a page with this issue. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 04:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)


 * CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath Bare URLs are really only fixable if the link is not dead yet, so tagging it after the fact isn't helpful. So I think it would be better practice to tag as just dead. It's probably not worth making edits to fix though. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 05:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay thanks. That was my thought as well but wanted to double check. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 05:53, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * , the logical next step in a case like this is to carry out a competent internet search in attempt to verify the poorly referenced assertion. If you discover a reliable source, then use it to create a new reference to replace the dead links that are so common with bare URLs. Cullen328 (talk) 07:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * dead link is helpful; bare url is harmful. bare url will often induce bots and incautious editors with imperfect citation scripts to come round and garble the reference, leaving it with a source free of any maintenance tags where the full citation information amounts to Page not foundema.europa.eu or similar. Folly Mox (talk) 14:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * There was a big ol' fight about this a few years back. Folly Mox (talk) 14:48, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply it makes a lot of sense. I'm currently using the cleanup listing to find the bare URLs so once it updates I'll replace the bare url templates with dead link templates and see what I can find as far as alternative sources. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 17:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I think "step zero" is to try to see if the URL was archived. If so, build a citation from the archived copy. -Arch dude (talk) 15:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I do usually check however I was specifically reffering to links that aren't archived. CursedWithTheAbilityToDoTheMath (talk) 17:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

How do i change the font size?
How do i change the font size? 2601:98A:4102:5AC0:35A8:51D6:3FDF:D2F4 (talk) 09:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Click the glasses icon at top of pages. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:16, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

How to reverse a redirect?
Currently, Turbinate reduction surgery redirects to Turbinectomy. I would like to reverse the redirect: rename Turbinectomy to Turbinate reduction surgery, and have Turbinectomy point to it instead. The reasons for the move are outlined here.

How should I go about doing this? Do I need to delete Turbinate reduction surgery first? Amayorov (talk) 11:55, 13 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Isn't turbinectomy the more common term? Doug butler (talk) 14:21, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The more common term for one of the two surgeries, according to the sources quoted on the linked talkpage.I feel like this might be able to be accomplished by a round-robin move by someone with pagemover rights (Turbinate reduction surgery → Turbinoplasty without leaving a redirect, Turbinectomy → Turbinate reduction surgery), but I'm not sure if the history of the redirect Turbinate reduction surgery is considered trivial enough, and the move may require admin rights. Assuming in any case consensus is reached for the rename. Folly Mox (talk) 14:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I've outlined the reasons for the move here. Generally, Turbinectomy and Turbinoplasty are considered different procedures. Both of them fall under Turbinate reduction surgery. Amayorov (talk) 18:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Hello, Amayorov, and welcome to the Teahouse. You have done the right thing by opening a discussion; but you should wait several days for input from other people knoweldgeable about the subject before going ahead. If nobody replies in, say, a week, you can take that as acceptance.
 * When the time comes, you can request the move at WP:RM. ColinFine (talk) 15:40, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

wikipedia's search engine
I am curious about the ordering of results from Wikipedia's internal search engine. (1) Is its algorithm described somewhere? (2) Where might one send comments on the algorithm? Mdmi (talk) 13:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Usually the results come back ordered by pageview, although I don't remember this being documented anywhere. For the factors used to determine which autocomplete suggestions to display, there's fairly good details at mw:Extension:CirrusSearch/CompletionSuggester. The main help page for the search engine is at mw:Help:CirrusSearch. The whole codebase is open source, so if you're comp sci enough you might be interested in the GitHub repo. In terms of reaching the devs, they'll see bug reports at phab:tag/mediawiki-search, but I'm not sure where general feedback would be best received. What are your comments specifically? Perhaps we can figure out how best to get in touch, or even solve your problem directly with additional information. Folly Mox (talk) 14:20, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oh right I forgot the main thrust of the question. You might find an informative read. Folly Mox (talk) 14:22, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Vandalism help request from Googolplexus
I have noticed some vandalism at Cockatoo, Victoria. Namely, a bunch of different IP addresses keep adding something about 'Gryphen's Bachelor Pad' to this article and surrounding areas like Emerald, Victoria. Would an editor please assist me with fixing it? I reverted the latest vandalism myself but they keep coming back so I was wondering if there was a way to get them to stop doing it - though it comes from different IPs a lot of the time so I'm not sure. Thank you, Googolplexus (talk) 16:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Hello, . I do not think the vandalism is frequent enough to justify semi-protection. Just keep an eye on the articles. Perhaps an edit filter might be useful. Cullen328 (talk) 18:13, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Alright, thank you Googolplexus (talk) 18:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Revising move request statement after the fact
What is the correct protocol for revising a move request statement after the fact at Talk:Disagreement (disambiguation)? --Jax 0677 (talk) 17:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)


 * , unless you're making a major change like altering the suggested move target, you can edit the statement like you would any other talkpage post: surround the text you're removing with , place the new text you're adding inside ins, and add a second timestamp to your original signature like edited ~~~~~. Guidance at WP:REDACT. Folly Mox (talk) 14:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Infobox parameter -- display as link
I would like an infobox parameter to display as a link. An example of this may be found at, say, the infobox in the wikipedia page for Oxford, UK: Oxford wherein the parameter "Demonym" appears in the infobox as a link. What is the standard way to do this? Neither the "Edit Source" on that wikipedia page, nor the relevant Infobox Template page Template:Infobox settlement seem to give any clue on how this should be done. Jriley (talk) 19:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Oxonian did not work for you?
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 19:14, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks Trappist. Your code might work, but I don't see the double brackets on the Edit Source page. All I see for that line is:
 * population_demonym     = Oxonian
 * ... and it's the bit of code that tells the wp server to serve up the parameter's corresponding value as a link that I would like to use. Jriley (talk) 19:37, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Did you try: Oxonian → Oxonian? Do the change manually or there is a 'magic button' in the source editor header that looks like a pair of chain links.  Highlight 'Oxonian' and click the magic button.  Choose the destination that you want and click the 'Insert link' button.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 19:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks again Trappist. It's the parameter ("Demonym") I need to show as a link, not the value ("Oxonian"). This would mean something like:
 * | population_demonym     = Oxonian
 * ... which breaks the infobox. Jriley (talk) 19:59, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * At Oxford, the label 'Demonym' is linked to Demonym so what you are really asking eludes me.
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 21:44, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * You cannot control how the parameter names are displayed in an infobox, (unless there are other parameters to allow you to). They are coded in the template itself. You would need to edit the template (and possibly an underlying module) to get the parameter name to display as a wikilink. ColinFine (talk) 22:16, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) I think Jriley wants to introduce a link on a currently unlinked secret field label of a secret infobox on a secret page. I don't know why so many posters insist on keeping it super secret from helpers what they actually want help with but it's very annoying and wastes a huge amount of time. It's the infobox template itself and not the caller which controls both the text and any link on the infobox labels in the left column. The caller only controls the value in the right column. A few infoboxes have additional parameters to control the label of one or a few of their normal parameters. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thankyou Trappist and ColinFine. I had a look at the infobox template page, and could see nothing there indicating how the parameter entry shows as a link on the wp page. I suspect indeed there is an underlying module as you suggest Colin. Jriley (talk) 22:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * At, the linking of the label 'Demonym' is handled by this markup:
 * —Trappist the monk (talk) 22:40, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks Trappist :) Jriley (talk) 22:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks Trappist :) Jriley (talk) 22:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Can I change the title of my submitted draft while not being an autoconfirmed user?
Recently, I submitted my article draft for review, but after doing so, realized that the title of my article was still User:MY NAME/Sandbox. Is there any way to change this or will it be removed if my article is accepted to publish? I am not an autoconfirmed user so I think this might make the process harder. Henry Trevithick (talk) 19:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Henry Trevithick, I have moved page User:Henry Trevithick/sandbox to Draft:Health effects of ultra-processed foods as article titles generally use sentence case. Usually drafts don't get reviewed immediately and someone will move them from sandbox to draftspace if necessary. TSventon (talk) 20:15, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you. That is perfect. Henry Trevithick (talk) 16:55, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

United States shootings
I wanted to know the statistics for the number of people who got shot in the three major cities: New York City, Los Angeles and Chicago on the 4th of July 2024? It strikes me so sad that Independence Day has become a holiday of so much violence!

Thank you for your efforts to respond in advance. GW 2601:240:D981:79D0:202E:A778:4FA8:1C6B (talk) 20:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)


 * GW, you can try asking at Reference desk/Humanities. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Our article on 2024 Fourth of July shootings is in pretty bad shape, but looks like it has the answer for Chicago, at least. —Cryptic 14:33, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

How do I get the page open to type in code for my job to see screen
How do I get the page open to type in code for my job to see screen Tamishelton (talk) 21:03, 13 July 2024 (UTC)


 * @Tamishelton I have placed a welcome message on your user talk page which should give you the answer you seek 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:27, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

what rights to remove a page from *someone else's* watchlist?
Just curious, what level of "mop bucket" is required to have the ability to remove page from a users watchlist. Do administrators or bureaucrats have that ability or would it take office action? (I know it seems silly, but I once actually had a new user indicate that someone should remove a page that this user "owned" (since they worked for the group) from my watchlist). Is this a WP:VPT question?Naraht (talk) 21:03, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * According to Help:Watchlist, No other user, not even administrators, can tell what is in your watchlist, or who is watching any particular page. Publicly available database dumps do not include this information either. However, developers who have access to the servers that hold the Wikipedia database can obtain this information. TSventon (talk) 21:22, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Making a map of the BERTS
Hello, can we request that we make a map of BERTS, a canceled project in Bangkok, Thailand, and get some sources to make a map? See the map on FB post: Jussie2024 (talk) 22:23, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Courtesy link: Bangkok Elevated Road and Train System (to which BERTS redirects). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.82.201 (talk) 09:47, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It is relatively unlikely that you will find anybody here who will be interested in doing that. You could certainly ask at the WP:Graphics Lab/Map workshop. But I would guess that while people there may be interested in helping you create a map, they will not be willing to spend the time finding the resources, and will expect you to do that. (I may be wrong, of course). ColinFine (talk) 11:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Sending a Photo for a page
Hello… My name is MELI’SA MORGAN the R&B singer. I would like to send a photo for you to use on my Wikipedia page. As you have no photo on my Meli’sa Morgan page.

I tried to upload in editing but it would not save it? Please let me know how to send the photo to be added to my Wikipedia page.

Thank you. JOYCEMM12 (talk) 22:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)


 * JOYCEMM12 see File upload wizard for instructions on uploading files. Note, all uploaded photos must have a Creative Commons (or the like) license, or be uploaded under fair use. Once the file is uploaded, see Help:Pictures for instructions on inserting it into Meli'sa Morgan. Sungodtemple (talk &#8226; contribs) 09:29, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Hello, Meli'sa. While Sungodtemple's answer is correct, I don't think it is as helpful as it might be.
 * There are two issues. The more important, from Wikipedia's point of view, is that of conflict of interest: in general you should not be directly editing the artilce Meli'sa Morgan yourself, but instead should raise edit requests on the article's talk page. Having said that, inserting an image is probably OK; but (for example) replacing an existing image with another one would probably not be: it would be up to uninvolved editors, not to you, to decide which is the most fitting image of those available.
 * Secondly, there is the image itself. Wikipedia is very careful about copyright. For an article about a living person, the only permissible photo is one that has been explicitly licensed with a permissive licence such as WP:CC-BY-SA by the copyright owner (who is not usually the subject).
 * So, if you have a photo where you own the copyright (either because you took it yourself, or because the photographer has specifically assigned you the copyright) then you may upload it, and declare in doing so that you are the copyright owner, and you are releasing it under a suitable licence. (Be aware that in doing so, you are granting an irrevocable licence to anybody in the world to reuse and alter the photo, as long as they attribute its source).
 * If you do not own the copyright, then you will need the owner to either upload it as I have explained, or to explicitly license it: see donating copyright materials. ColinFine (talk) 11:51, 14 July 2024 (UTC)