Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2024 May 19

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Cast order when no actors in credits
Kalloori Vaasal (1996) article puts Ajith Kumar's name first but the film is remembered for Prashanth's performance (as shown by a source in the production section ) as a rowdy college student although both have similar screen time. The article probably puts his name second due to the fact that he is not popular anymore while Ajith Kumar still is. Protocol? At the time of release, Prashanth had more hits (at least three) as lead while Ajith Kumar only was noticed in 1995 a year before. This puts Prashanth's name first. DareshMohan (talk) 00:44, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I believe the default convention is to list the cast alphabetically, in whice case Ajith Kumar's name would be first. What the film is remembered for (by whom?) and who is the more popular are irrelevant. Shantavira|feed me 08:16, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @DareshMohan, @Shantavira: For the infobox, the documentation for the starring parameter of Infobox film states in general, use the billing block of the poster for the film's original theatrical release as a rule of thumb for listing starring actors. If unavailable, use the top-billed actors from the screen credits. This sometimes leads to an unexpected order, such as on Gandhi (film). Bazza 7 (talk) 09:04, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @User:Bazza_7 A quick Google search shows that the actors' names were omitted from the posters. . DareshMohan (talk) 07:28, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @DareshMohan: Have you tried following "If unavailable..." then? Bazza 7 (talk) 07:33, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The screen credits only credits the crew i.e. makeup man, editor, cameraman, writer, producer and director. Full movie is on YouTube. (Google Translate on Mobile easily translates it). DareshMohan (talk) 07:34, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @DareshMohan: What reliable source is used in the article to verify who the actors are? If no such information has been published then, at the very least, the article needs tagging with Citation required and the order of names left as is. Bazza 7 (talk) 19:28, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Cinesouth is used . The Hindu review mentions that both of the 2 lead actors roles are equal. Ajit Kumar, riding a success wave now, matches Prashant in every move . DareshMohan (talk) 00:21, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Richard Dawson (1855–1923)
I have accidently added a file (photo) and  it is  TOO large. Please fix and add the caption underneath "Dawson attended Hertford College, Oxford".

Thank you and my apologies 101.182.31.143 (talk) 02:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I see no image there. It is not until the fifth sentence of that brief article that the reader learns that Dawson was a Member of Parliament, which is his valid claim of notability. That's bizarre and disconcerting. Cullen328 (talk) 09:35, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Richard Dawson (1855–1923)
I have accidently added a file (photo) and it is  TOO large. Please fix and add the caption underneath "Dawson attended Hertford College, Oxford".

Thank you and my apologies Srbernadette (talk) 07:30, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I have removed it, it was an irrelevant photograph. Theroadislong (talk) 07:50, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Copyright tag
I want to upload a still image from the 1949 motion picture Eureka Stockade. What would be the correct one to use? Robbiegibbons (talk) 02:23, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi In principle, you should assume the image is protected by copyright and then work from there. Given the date of the film, everything depends on whether the still is still (no pun intended) under copyright protection. Did you find the image somewhere online? If you did, then please provide a link to it. Since this is a British film, c:COM:United Kingdom is relevant. In the US, for example, stills for films from that time period were quite commonly provided by movie studios to movie theaters for publicity purposes and many of these stills were either released without a valid copyright notice or had a notice but the copright wasn't subsequently renewed as required under US copyright law at the time, which means they either never were or no longer are eligible for copyright protection (ie. they're considered to be within the public domain). So, it's quite possible the still itself is within the public domain even if the film it comes from under copyright protection. However, in order to assess this, the image needs to be seen because the required copyright notice often appeared either in the border or on the back of such images, and such things are often cropped out when the stills end up being used online. Many people selling such stills on sites like ebay do, on the other hand, often provide full uncropped version (front and back) of these photos as a way to allow other to verify their authenticity. So, if there's something similar allowed under British copyright law, then it's possible the stills are within the public domain. Otherwise, if there's no way to verify the copyright status of the image, it will likely need to be treated as non-free content, which makes things much more complicated because non-free images are much more harder to use in that they need to satisfy Wikipedia's non-free content use policy. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:25, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

TK give me
Kutupalong 103.242.23.191 (talk) 04:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Do you have a question about editing Wikipedia? There is a search box at the top of every page that may help you. We have an article about Kutupalong. Shantavira|feed me 08:11, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

"and" in artists' collaborations
In the Eurovision Song Contest 2024, Ukraine was represented by Alyona Alyona & Jerry Heil (ignoring stylized lowercase), Estonia by 5miinust x Puuluup. In the article, we write both Alyona Alyona and Jerry Heil, and 5miinust and Puuluup. Are there conventions to unify it in this way, instead of using their original glyphs? --KnightMove (talk) 09:06, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * @KnightMove: As "&" is being used to simply mean "and", but does not seem to be part of a band name, then MOS:AMPERSAND applies. The same applies to the bizarre use of "x", which might also be covered by the beginning of WP:BANDNAME; MOS:TMRULES covers similar styling of trademarks and the like. Bazza 7 (talk) 09:24, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Is there a wikiword...
For being driven straight up a tree by references that are *not* in numerical order, (for example, if a sentence is followed by [8][3][2])Naraht (talk) 13:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Hello @Naraht, I find your question vague.
 * Please reply with a clearer explanation, as some may not understand the question, and wait for someone who can answer this question to help. Thanks! Garethphua (talk) 13:25, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Naraht WP:CITEORDER specifically says you shouldn't edit war over such trivia, so I guess the correct word might be WP:WikiKing, or take your choice from other WP:WikiFauna. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * (ec) This question actually makes a lot of sense to me (maybe the unclear part is the "drive up a tree" idiom). I don't know a name for this situation, but WP:CITEORDER mentions it. Even if they start out in order, edits to other sections can cause them to wind up differently ordered if re-using named references defined in those other sections. DMacks (talk) 13:42, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The purpose of your post is unclear but maybe you wonder why it happens. References are normally numbered in order of first use on the page, not in order of the definition if they are named and reused. It would be possible to swap references which are at the same content until their numbers are in numerical order at that place but we don't do that. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:55, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * We actually had a rather large conversation somewhere (that I started, can't remember if it became an RfC or not), but it became pretty clear that we should not be putting references into numerical order.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 15:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I do also find this very irksome (more round the bend than up a tree) but I can see that it would not be helpful to spend much time on it. If you feel compelled to rearrange citations, I would suggest doing it as part of a materially constructive edit. -- D'n'B-t -- 17:46, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Actually the discussion (I'll see if I can find it to link it) specifically said not to change references purely on a numerical basis.  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:44, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Found the chat - it was never an RfC, but maybe some helpful reading: Wikipedia talk:Citing sources/Archive 53  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 18:52, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Reason
Sort of a passive-agressive way to find out if there is *any* justification to "sorting them". BTW, which way do they do it in text?Naraht (talk) 15:18, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

STARTING A NEW ENTRY
I have translated an entry into English on Word. I now want to transfer the text to English Wikipedia. Are there templates, or one tempate, that provides the skeleton for the correct way to present a Wikepedia article? Resignation793 (talk) 13:57, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I don't write articles myself, so others will have better advice, but one tip I can give you is to first copy the text into a non-formatted program like Notepad. This will strip out the 'invisible' Word formatting codes which, if copied into Wikipedia, can cause unforseen problems and complications. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.2.67.173 (talk) 14:13, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * There is no such universal template. MOS:STRUCTURE lists the main sections and links to describe each. For the body itself, different subjects have different typical article structures. If you tell us more specifically what your article is, maybe someone will recognize a similar existing article as a model you can use. DMacks (talk) 14:22, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * There is some rather brief guidance at Help:Translation. The most important thing to do is check that the subject meets English Wikipedia's notability guidelines as if the subject is not suitable for an article, the article is likely to be deleted, however well written. TSventon (talk) 14:23, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

correct numbers in Israel Hamas War
Currently the article on the Israel Hamas war continues to quote Hamas funded sources. The United Nations recently released their estimations on the civilian casualties of the war, these numbers being half of what the Gazan Health Ministry claims. Could these numbers also be included in the article in order to show the multitude of differing sources that disprove the GHM and its Hamas backers? 71.244.253.88 (talk) 14:02, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Editing about anything related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, including the war with Hamas, is restricted- IP users are limited to proposing specific changes as edit requests on article talk pages. Anything else requires an account with at least 500 edits that is at least 30 days old. If you have a specific edit to propose, please make an edit request(click the link for instructions). 331dot (talk) 15:52, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, any edits about wartime information while in the heat of battle are suspect due to not just the potential sources but also the inevitable "fog of war". All such edits and sources need to be taken with a grain of salt AND qualified as 'tentative'.  This is my opinion as an experienced editor and NOT established in guideline or policy as far as I know. --01:51, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Help With Editing
Hi, let me tell you a scenario. I want to create a battle but I'm not sure how to add references in the battle infobox. Could you please tell me? I want to use a reference i got for the infobox, and for something else. Basically, I'm going to reuse the reference i put in the battle on other paragraphs as well. Thanks. Also, what is the difference between footnotes, references and sources? Thanks so much and have a good day! :) Fauji Enthusiast (talk) 17:30, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Also asked at Teahouse. Fauji Enthusiast please do not ask in more than one venue as it wastes volunteer time. TSventon (talk) 17:35, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Random page in subcategories
Is there a way to get the functionality of random page in category to include pages in that category's subcategories? (In particular I think it would be a nice option to have in category:CS1 errors). -- D'n'B-t -- 17:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I think you can use "type=subcat" for that, which will return a random subcategory, if I understand the example correctly. RudolfRed (talk) 20:54, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * nevermind, rereading your question I don't think that is what you want. RudolfRed (talk) 20:55, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Archived record of a request for comment
Once a request for comment has been archived is there any way to open a complaints or appeal process against the decision/conclusion made by the person that has achieved the discussion? Helper201 (talk) 17:52, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I think you are looking for Closing discussions, which says that review should not be used as an opportunity to re-argue the underlying dispute, and is only intended for use when there is a problem with the close itself. TSventon (talk) 19:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Question
I want to upload a file, but i unfortunately cannot access wikimedia commons. Could anyone help me? DANGA14 talk 18:48, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * You don't appear to be blocked over there so I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to access it. this is the upload wizard, but if you are using your phone the mobile app is actually an easier way to upload images. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 20:04, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * It appears that you (@DANGA14) are not registered on Wikimedia Commons. You need to register there; there is a way of federating logins across Commons and Wikipedia, but this isn't required.  Once you are registered on the site, you should be able to upload to Commons. --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 02:04, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Referencing Issue
Hi there,

I wanted to ask if someone is able to help me with a referencing issue. I translated a page from the Russian Wikipedia and published it, but realized the page for whatever reason has the references section to the right of the page. I tried looking into it and seeing how to resolve it, but nothing seems to be fixing it. Can someone help with this? The page in question is Draft:Vacío (rapper). Thank you in advance for the assistance. Losipov (talk) 20:08, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I think it may have something to do with the ref being named ":2". The colon may be causing some sort of parsing error. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 20:15, 19 May 2024 (UTC)


 * You had a that wasn't closed with a  . Fixed it here. DuncanHill (talk) 20:26, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @DuncanHill Thank you very much! Same to you @Just Step Sideways! Losipov (talk) 20:34, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I had a feeling someone with a better eye for code would come along and find the actual problem. Just Step Sideways from this world ..... today 20:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

Gringer canada
Gringer canada 77.149.55.50 (talk) 21:01, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Do you have a question about using Wikipedia? PrimeHunter (talk) 21:30, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

dark?
where change to dark ...white too bright 99.121.205.136 (talk) 21:05, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * If you create an account, you can enable either the dark mode gadget in your preferences or the dark mode beta feature in your preferences Village_pump_(technical) RudolfRed (talk) 21:10, 19 May 2024 (UTC)