Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/12 December 2005/List of Freemasons

Was Jefferson a Mason?

 * Request made by (please sign below):

--SarekOfVulcan 21:13, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Status: New request


 * Where is the issue taking place?
 * List of Freemasons


 * Who's involved?
 * Primarily User:SarekOfVulcan and User:KJVTRUTH


 * What's going on?
 * Current Masonic scholarship says that despite past belief, Thomas Jefferson was never actually a Freemason. Many Masonic sites, though, have not quite caught up with that, unfortunately. I (and others) am trying to keep him off the List of Freemasons -- KJVTRUTH is trying just as hard to put him back on.


 * ''What would you like to change about that?
 * I'd like him to agree with me, naturally. :-) Failing that, I'd like an outside view of the dueling cites, to see which is more relevant for the purposes of this article.


 * If you'd prefer we work discreetly, how can we reach you?
 * No particular discretion necessary, but my email is linked to my account.

Mediator response
I am the mediator for your request on Was Jefferson a Mason?

I suggest you to add a new paragraph like:

Possible members of Freemasonry

 * T. Jefferson

I think this may be a good compromise. I'm looking forward your reaction. Bonaparte  talk  15:30, 21 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I think "Disputed" would be better than "Possible". I'll take it over to the talk page and see if there's consensus for this change.--SarekOfVulcan 09:36, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Bonaparte, there hasn't been a lot of discussion one way or the other on the talk page. I could just stick the section in, but it's something I'm very hesitant to do, since that will make it more difficult to verify the names.--SarekOfVulcan 20:40, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've noticed this. Still add that section there as "Disputed". I consider this case as a case closed.-- Bonaparte  talk  07:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Comments by others
from user:KJVTRUTH, I have in my possesion a (1955 Masonic Bible) that lists Presidents who have been Masons. It plainly states on the Page for Thomas Jefferson "there are unmistakable evidences that he was an active Mason" The bible also on the page lists his involvement with the laying of the Corner Stone for Central College in 1817, He is listed by Charlottsville Lodge No. 90 as a visitor present at these ceremonies. "Masons" of today do not want to call Thomas Jefferson a brother, possibly because of his [letters with Adam Weishaup] who founded the Illuminati. Wanting someone to NOT be a Mason Today, can't change the fact they were one in the past.

Following is what I would like to have listed for Thomas Jefferson on the list of freemasons page 1955 Masonic Bible source1, [source2][source3][source4][source5][source6][source7][source8][source9] [source10] [source11] [source12][source13]
 * Thomas Jefferson, 2nd U.S. Vice President, Served under Adams, Charlottesville Lodge No. 90, Charlottesville, VA : Jefferson was also a member of the Lodge of the Nine Muses in Paris and the Beenan Order (Order of the Bees) known outside Bavaria as the Illuminati.

to User:SarekOfVulcan, from user:KJVTRUTH : For now, since this issue as far as posting Jefferson on Wikipedia seems to be of little interest to anyone but you, or I; I leave his fate on the list for you to render judgement. I after remembering (Psalm 1) from the bible must not stand between you and the truth, nor sit in judgement over what you choose to believe. Feel free to remove this item from the Cabal after you decide.

Actually, I'm sure there are many folks interested, the Cabal just seems to have gone on hiatus. Probably User:Kestenbaum is very interested for the Political Graveyard. Please have both sides clearly stated with nice external references!


 * I put my three references on the Talk page: I can copy them here as well if you think it would be useful.--SarekOfVulcan 21:53, 14 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Actually, I just checked Jefferson's entry on the Graveyard, and Kestenbaum doesn't ID him as a Mason, either.--SarekOfVulcan 20:43, 27 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I just now found the above reference to me. On Political Graveyard, I used to list Jefferson as a Mason (several years ago); in response to user comments, and my examination of the sources available at the time, I decided to remove that connection. Kestenbaum 17:34, 30 January 2006 (UTC)