Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-01-12 Camp Delta

Request Information

 * Request made by: Kafziel 15:01, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Where is the issue taking place?
 * Talk:Camp Delta


 * Who's involved?
 * User:Kafziel, User:Triskell (who changed name because didn't like the previous one), and User:Geo Swan (briefly)


 * What's going on?
 * Triskell added a lot of claims of "torture" and how the U.S. is illegally detaining prisoners in Cuba. Even though there's a section discussing allegations of abuse, he has gone through and added "torture" all over the article. I reverted his first edit, thinking it was vandalism, but when he put it back I figured he was serious so I put a tag on it and moved the issue to the talk page. I don't know how else to say it: the guy is nuts. He's accusing me of trying to suppress the truth, saying that we shouldn't have POV standards on wikipedia because everything in the world is POV (including the reality of existence itself... seriously.)


 * Dear all, although the mediation is closed and no longer necessary, I would like to make a final statement on this issue. I was very clumsy in changing the article and I did not realise at that time the consequences of my changes. User:Kafziel's remarks where right and done with good intention although his personal attacks did not help. He is a fool to treat a newcomer this way and to call someone he does not know a "nuts". Anyways, as far as I am concerned, the argument is over. Thank you for your mediation (and for the many things I learned!). Triskell 19:40, 17 January 2006 (EST)


 * ''What would you like to change about that?
 * All I really want is for one or two others to look at the changes he's made to the article and weigh in on the talk page. If you think his changes were fair, so be it. But I can't take any more of this guy.
 * I just looked at the page, and it uses the word "torture" 19 times. I think that would be excessive even if there was evidence. To compare, the page on Joseph Stalin uses the word "torture" twice, and the pages on Fidel Castro and Nazism don't even use it once. 19 times? Come on.


 * If you'd prefer we work discreetly, how can we reach you?
 * You don't need to be discreet. You can leave messages on my talk page; my email is enabled, too, if you want to use that. Thanks very much.

Comments by others

 * I've personally been watching, but haven't contributed to the discussion because Kafziel and I have argued about other things in the past. I figured it would exacerbate things. However, I do feel he has a valid point. The examples of Stalin, etc, are compelling. This is also mentioned on the abovementioned talk page. For what it is worth, Kafziel and I disagree on some subjects, but I don't feel that he is crusading for one cause or another -- in contrast to the users on the page who most definitely seem to be. (see comment about Kafziel "putting down a gun", etc) Avriette 00:01, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Dear all, I apologize if I did hurt someone else's feeling with my comment on "putting down a gun". However, it must be quoted properly as "you should put this gun down, you are going to hurt someone :-)" (notice the smiley at the end of the sentence). All the best! Triskell 19:40, 17 January 2006 (EST)


 * It seems enough people have voiced their support and helped improve the article, and we are back on track. I still have a minor "stalking" problem with this guy, but I think that will subside once he learns the ropes at Wikipedia (this is the first article he's done much with, and most of that was arguing with me) and it's certainly not the Cabal's problem. I appreciate your help with all of this. As far as I'm concerned, the issue is closed. Kafziel 07:52, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Mediator response
As far as I can tell, the argument has subsided. I left some remarks on the talk page of the article. I won't describe it as "closed" yet. Sdedeo (tips) 01:08, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, sounds like we're "back on track". I'll "close out" the mediation. Thanks to all, Sdedeo (tips) 20:48, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Before you close the mediation, I would like to explain my point of view. However, I have no time right now. Would it be possible that you wait one or two more days, please? Triskell 17:16, 16 January 2006 (EST)

Hi Triskell -- sure, I'll unclose it. Sdedeo (tips) 02:18, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, I just got an e-mail from User:Kafziel saying that he no longer wishes to participate in the mediation, so I have to close it out. I wish you the best of luck in resolving issues. Sdedeo (tips) 08:39, 17 January 2006 (UTC)