Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-05-10 Low quality edits by user with poor English skills

Mediation Case: 2006-05-10 Low quality edits by user with poor English skills
Please observe Etiquette and Talk Page Etiquette in disputes. If you submit complaints or insults your edits are likely to be removed by the mediator, any other refactoring of the mediation case by anybody but the mediator is likely to be reverted. If you are not satisfied with the mediation procedure please submit your complaints to Wikipedia talk:Mediation Cabal.

Request Information

 * Request made by: Fnarf999 19:38, 10 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Where is the issue taking place?
 * My user talk page, Akidd dublin's user talk page, the village pump, the articles Red hair, Baking oven, and other pages edited or created by Akidd dublin


 * Who's involved?
 * me, Akidd dublin, a few other users on the pages, particularly an admin User:Yamla


 * What's going on?
 * Akidd dublin is obviously a non-native speaker of English. He is making edits to pages that are not only grammatically incorrect, but display a fundamental lack of understanding of English idiom. For the most egregious example, he inserted patent nonsense into the article Red hair about the supposed Cockney expression "ginger" (from "ginger beer") referring to the Gaiety Theatre in Dublin, Ireland, which is (according to him the origin of the word "gai" referring to homosexuals, or as he puts it "sexual flavourings for entertainment purposes". None of this rubbish has anything to do with red hair. But all he wants to do is argue about it, in broken English that is very difficult to respond to.


 * There are many other examples. He creates multiple bad articles that suggest he doesn't understand how words are used; see Baking oven (currently under AfD), Reverse charging (ditto). He also repeatedly inserts links to his own web pages in these articles (see Superstition that don't belong there.


 * In response to my corrections or comments or AfDs, he is writing completely unintelligible stuff on my talk page. Seriously, look at it; he sounds like a very low-grade AI program. "i do look ordinary nike" -- ":Some countries do not do ''ghey' topics in their internet, and that's where i am relating from. The way it is looks great disrepair to me"


 * ''What would you like to change about that?
 * I would like Akidd dublin to cease to write to my talk page or any other page in response to me. Ideally I think Akidd dublin should be banned, as it makes no sense for people who cannot write intelligible English to be editing an English encyclopedia.


 * If you'd prefer we work discreetly, how can we reach you?
 * fnarf@comcast.net


 * Would you be willing to be a mediator yourself, and accept a mediation assignment in a different case?


 * This is, following the Categorical Imperative, the idea that you might want to do
 * what you expect others to do. You don't have to, of course, that's why it's a question.


 * Yes, but I think I would probably make a lousy mediator -- I can see through solutions well but am too hot-tempered to avoid making problems worse.

Mediator response
Responding through e-mail. Cowman109Talk 23:48, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Case closed. Matter at hand resolved through e-mail. Cowman109Talk 19:53, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Evidence
Please report evidence in this section with for misconduct and  for 3RR violations. If you need help ask a mediator or an advocate. Evidence is of limited use in mediation as the mediator has no authority. Providing some evidence may, however, be useful in making both sides act more civil. Etiquette: Although it's understandably difficult in a heated argument, if the other party is not as civil as you'd like them to be, make sure to be more civil than him or her, not less.

Compromise offers
This section is for listing and discussing compromise offers.

Comments by others
I realize the personal nature of this case and there's no need to go into all the specifics, I guess. However this seems to be an interesting dillemma that no doubt has affected and/or will affect Wikipedia many times in the future: good-faith editors trying to get by in a language they are not quite fully comfortable in, and whether it is an option of the community to expel that user on the basis of causing more confusion than the value of his contributions merits. In that regard and in the interest of forming some sort of precedent, can we find out any details about what went on in this case "behind the scenes"? — GT 07:09, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry for not clarifying, but I was focusing more on calming down the situation for Fnarff. Basically my recommendation is for the users to simply part ways to avoid future conflict, as the way things are will get nowhere. The area of disciplining Akidd if such action is required is not for the mediation cabal to decide, but for administrators. This wasn't so much a mediation as it was simply getting two users who apparently have a thick language barrier in between them to simply calm down and step aside. I felt that by having them avoid confrontation, then the heated matter would dissolve. Cowman109Talk 15:29, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Also see User_talk:Fnarf999 for evidence of the situation appearing to cool down. Akidd has apologized and the conflict between the users appears to be diminishing. Cowman109Talk 15:34, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Except that he just called me a "racist" on the Incident board: But I will not respond there. Fnarf999 15:42, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * So it seems there are still issues after all. At this point the matter appears to be Akidd looking for a fight, leaning towards personal attacks. I also recommended to Fnarf that should Akidd continue coming to Fnarff in search of a fight, then matters could be taken to the incident board. It still seems the best way to heal this conflict is through time, though, to let Akidd cool off. Cowman109Talk 15:48, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay I see, I just saw that Akidd had "abandoned" his account and thought that you had urged him to. Instead it looks like one of the famous "I'm leaving until someone convinces me not to!" deals. I wonder if other wikis get that or if he learned it here? — GT 17:26, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I have responded on the admin incidents board, with a brief (or not so brief :) summary of the background. Would agree that Fnarf999 not responding was the best thing to do, if Akidd continues to complain/attack Fnarf999, it will be dealt with appropiately. Hopefully that aspect will die down, and we can then go about talking with Akikid trying to come to some solution about his language difficulties. Regards, MartinRe 18:02, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
I would be happy to explain what happened, and provide copious examples of problem edits and other behavior, if it is appropriate. I don't know if it's appropriate, so I'll await an admin's decision before doing so. Fnarf999 15:20, 13 May 2006 (UTC)