Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-05-22 Links to mods in Deus Ex

Mediation Case: 2006-05-22 Links to mods in Deus Ex
Please observe Etiquette and Talk Page Etiquette in disputes. If you submit complaints or insults your edits are likely to be removed by the mediator, any other refactoring of the mediation case by anybody but the mediator is likely to be reverted. If you are not satisfied with the mediation procedure please submit your complaints to Wikipedia talk:Mediation Cabal.

Request Information

 * Request made by: Yukichigai 17:42, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Where is the issue taking place?
 * Deus Ex, in particular the Overview and Mod Links sections


 * Who's involved?
 * Myself, Crossmr and Drat thus far.


 * What's going on?
 * A few days ago I noticed mention of my mod (Shifter) in the Deus Ex article, (present since December) but noticed there was no link to it in the Mod Links section. I added a link for it and moved on.  A few days later I noticed that my addition had almost immediately been reverted by Crossmr under the justification of "spam".  I reverted to my previous edit and pointed out on the talk page that I had not added refferences about the mod to the article, but simply added an additional link to it.  This was reverted (and then some) by Drat, who removed all mod names from the overview section and cited the new lack of other refferences to Shifter as justification to remove the link I had posted.


 * ''What would you like to change about that?
 * While I think Crossmr's revert was made in good faith, Drat's edit appears to be more out of spite. However, I am too close to the issue to know if that is a justified summary of the situation.  I would like a neutral third party (or parties) to give their opinion on whether or not my initial edit and/or Drat's most recent edit are reasonable, proper and justified.


 * If you'd prefer we work discreetly, how can we reach you?
 * I wouldn't prefer it, but I can be reached at yukichigai (at) gmail (dot) com.


 * Would you be willing to be a mediator yourself, and accept a mediation assignment in a different case?


 * This is, following the Categorical Imperative, the idea that you might want to do
 * what you expect others to do. You don't have to, of course, that's why it's a question.


 * No thank you. Maybe later.

Mediator response
Hi, my name is Bottesini, and I will be your mediator for this dispute. Please use this page for the relevant discussion. If you need to contact me directly, do so at my talk page, or send me an e-mail if it needs to be confidential. &mdash;  ßott    e    siηi   (talk) 19:02, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
 * My recommendation is to leave all links to any mods that have not profoundly effected the course of game development out of the main text. If it is a notable mod, an external link at the bottom of the page with a short explanation is sufficient. &mdash;  ßott    e    siηi   (talk) 19:53, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Page is stable. Case closed. &mdash;  ßott e  siηi  (talk) 21:33, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Evidence
Please report evidence in this section with for misconduct and  for 3RR violations. If you need help ask a mediator or an advocate. Evidence is of limited use in mediation as the mediator has no authority. Providing some evidence may, however, be useful in making both sides act more civil. Etiquette: Although it's understandably difficult in a heated argument, if the other party is not as civil as you'd like them to be, make sure to be more civil than him or her, not less.
 * Deus Ex article history
 * Relevant section of Talk:Deus Ex

Compromise offers
This section is for listing and discussing compromise offers.

Discussion
Okay, a few things just off the top of my head, now that I've gotten some sleep and can articulate myself:


 * 1) After some consideration I think there is some validity to Drat's argument that individual mod names do not belong in the Overview section, but only because I think there's justification for a separate Mod section to the article. There is much that can be said about the modding community in Deus Ex, particularly its (in my opinion) odd evolution compared to the modding community in other games.  Mods are an important part of Deus Ex, as much of the current support for the game seems due in no small part to the number of mods developed and still under development.


 * 2) Arguing that removal of refferences to Shifter negates the justification for a link to it is, to put it nicely, flawed. By the same argument there should be absolutely no external links to mods whatsoever, as the article now has no refferences to mods anywhere but that specific external link section.


 * 3) Just so this is completely clear, the mention of Shifter was added to the article in December of 2005, and remained there with no objections until this recent "incident". While not definitive proof, it would seem by virtue of inaction that mention of it (and other mods) was considered relevant information.

That's all I have to say so far. Yukichigai 07:16, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

With regards to the mediation suggestion:

It should be noted that no mods actually shaped the development of Deus Ex as a game -- mostly because the SDK was not released until much later and no mods were past beta stages by the time the final patch was released -- so there are none that fall into your suggested qualifications for being listed in the main text. (Though this may be desirable anyway) What I would like some clarification on is guidelines for what one should look at to consider a mod "notable". Obviously there will be some friction between myself and Drat on this point when it comes to Shifter. Would statistics like approximate download figures or reviews on sites such as FilePlanet or DXEditing.com be appropriate in your opinion? (I do admit, the stats on FilePlanet are to my mod's favor, but that is just one site out of many) Providing some examples of how to determine how "notable" a mod is will make reaching a compromise that much easier. - Y&#124;yukichigai 23:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, if you aske me, no modifications should be mentioned in the main text. Figures shuch as downloads can be used to justify notablilty, but there are more important factors such as general importance to the subject. If the mod takes the article off on a tangent, I would not recommend mentiong it. I feel that I'm not being clear right now because I'm having a hard time myself understanding what I'm trying to get across. I guess what I mean is that even if a good number of people downloaded it but the mod is used for something that is not directly related to the actual original gameplay, then leave it out. Of course I am no Deus Ex expert, but this seems reasonable. It is a situation where the possible additions probably should not be judged by a strict set of criteria, but examined individually. Hope helps (it probably didn't) &mdash;  ßott    e    siηi   (talk) 00:42, 24 May 2006 (UTC)