Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-06-01 JD UK and 9cds

Mediation Case: 2006-06-01 JD UK and 9cds
Please observe Etiquette and Talk Page Etiquette in disputes. If you submit complaints or insults your edits are likely to be removed by the mediator, any other refactoring of the mediation case by anybody but the mediator is likely to be reverted. If you are not satisfied with the mediation procedure please submit your complaints to Wikipedia talk:Mediation Cabal.

Request Information

 * Request made by: JD 00:40, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Where is the issue taking place?
 * Talk:Big Brother UK series 7, Chronology of Big Brother UK series 7, Big Brother 7 Chronology, User_talk:JD UK


 * Who's involved?
 * JD UK and 9cds


 * What's going on?
 * I don't like the way 9cds is reacting to things I have to say; he has said two things I have said are personal attacks towards him when they weren't. He is also posting on my talk page that I am about to violate a 3 reverts rule, and it seems to me as though he doesn't like me and he has some sort of superiority complex about him.  A "personal attack" on Talk:Big Brother UK series 7 was removed by him, but with it he removed my whole post, and a person's reply.  He doesn't try to remove the personal attack and preserve the rest of the post.

I have also, on a number of occasions, told him to stop speaking to me about things that don't concern him, namely my deleting things on my talk page. He seems to think he owns the Big Brother pages, and he deleted the Chronology of Big Brother UK series 7 because he felt it didn't need to be there. When the Big Brother 7 Chronology page was created, he immediately nominated the page for deletion.


 * ''What would you like to change about that?
 * I want him to stop acting as though he owns the Big Brother pges, I want him to stop speaking to me unless it is absolutely necessary, I want him to stop posting the 3 revert rule thing on my talk page, and I want him to leave a "personal attack" on a page or at the very most delete just the attack and not the rest of a person's post.


 * If you'd prefer we work discreetly, how can we reach you?
 * e-mail address removed


 * Would you be willing to be a mediator yourself, and accept a mediation assignment in a different case?


 * This is, following the Categorical Imperative, the idea that you might want to do
 * what you expect others to do. You don't have to, of course, that's why it's a question.


 * Yes

Mediator response
I am the mediator for this case. Geo.plrd 01:05, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Mediator Notes
Note

I will try to contact User:9cds for a response.

Note

This case is declared closed as JD has stated he is no longer interested in pursuing mediation. Geo.plrd 21:46, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Evidence
Please report evidence in this section with for misconduct and  for 3RR violations. If you need help ask a mediator or an advocate. Evidence is of limited use in mediation as the mediator has no authority. Providing some evidence may, however, be useful in making both sides act more civil. Etiquette: Although it's understandably difficult in a heated argument, if the other party is not as civil as you'd like them to be, make sure to be more civil than him or her, not less.

Compromise offers
This section is for listing and discussing compromise offers.

Comments by others
I am "siding" with JD_UK here. 9cds is way out of order. I was the one who created "Big Brother 7 Chronology". Literally a minute after I had created the page, 9cds put it up for deletion, although there was an almost clear consensus that the page should be created from other Wikipedians on the talk page of the main BB7 article. What he did was simply spiteful. He didn't get his way and so put the article up for deletion. Then he deleted a comment I posted on JD_UK's talk page which he deleted before JD_UK even had a chance to read it. Well, I hope he's happy because JD_UK is now becoming an inactive contributor... Ellisjm 7:28 UTC 8 June 06
 * Now that's unfair. A consensus cannot be made from three users in half an hour, and everyone has the right to put any article up for AfD. I've explained my reasons for removing the talk page comment below. I'm not being spiteful against anyone, I'm making an encyclopedia. Try not to assume bad faith :) -- 9  cds (talk) 09:15, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Discussion
Ok, this is confusing so I might be responding wrong here. I think this all started when JD_UK wanted to move content from one page to another, and there wasn't enough support to warrent the move. After it was moved anyway, I reverted it back (doing a redirect: I cannot delete, I am not an admin), explaining there needs to be more support.

I was attacked, and JD_UK claimed I was trying to "rule" the page (I am merely keeping non-NPOV and gunk off the page, as are other users). I removed this attack, and put a personal attack warning on JD_UK's talk page. The day after, it was removed, so I put a note on his page noting it's bad practice to remove warnings from one's talk page. I got attacked for this, and once more after a polite notice about using popups as a reverting tool.

Tonight there was more attacks because the split article was created again (after I suggested to hold off until others have responded), so I put it up for AfD. I then get |some more abuse. Which I deleted... four times.

I'm just trying to keep the article sane in a fair way, and not rushing into things such a splitting up the article.-- cds(talk) 02:23, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I didn't want to move anything originally; the page was already there. However at the time I was unaware that the page had been made the same day, and I reverted 9cds's redirect on Chronology of Big Brother UK series 7 while assuming the page had been there since Big Brother 7 started. Despite that, how 9cds's reaction thereafter could have been handled better. After he reverted the page, I reverted it back and posted this on the main article's page. He said I had no viable excuse and said that the majority of people thought the page wasn't necessary, but also said there was no clear consensus. I reverted the page, and he reverted it again. He then posted a warning on my Talk page that I felt was not fair or necessary. Since then, we've both had conflicting opinions on things, and I have told him constantly to stop speaking to me unless necessary; he chose to continue posting on my talk page about things that were of little importance. He says I have posted personal attacks on talk pages, but they were not intended to be personal attacks nor should they have been interpreted as such. He chooses to delete my comment in its entirety and post personal attack warnings on my talk page instead of removing only what he interprets as a personal attack and trying to speak to me about it. He claims to be attempting to keep the article sane in a fair way, but he doesn't allow other people to have an opinion on the matter, and even now is trying his best to have the page not exist - he deleted a message on my talk page that I had not read, saying it was "begging" for me to vote to keep the Chronology page. After I commented on the chronology page's deletion section, 9cds posted a comment under my own saying I had a message on my talk page asking me to vote keep.

I don't see how I've attacked JD - I'm only trying to write an encyclopedia here. However, if JD feels I have personally attacked him, I apologise for this, it is not my intention. I don't feel I have, since most of my comments left on JD's talk page were templates. The message I deleted from JD's talk page read as follows: "go to it's article for deletion page and vote to keep it... Ellisjm 11:10 UTC 1 June 06" This is obviously not allowed, and it obvious common sense to remove such messages on sight. There is discussion about this here. -- 9  cds (talk) 22:43, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Proposed Solution
Note Geo.plrd 22:30, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

It appears to me that the information move was a honest mistake as JD_UK did not know that the page was recently created. To:JD_UK: you were in danger of violating the three revert rule, I see the warning as justified,9cds could have just had an admin block you. To:9cds: It is bad form to delete other peoples messages please do not do so in the future. To both parties: The personal attack dispute is easy to resolve, you both agree not to attack each other in the future.

Please type Satisfied or Dissatisfied. Post comments in the discussion section. Geo.plrd 22:30, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Dissatisfied The other problems I have with the way 9cds acts, whether towards me explicitly or all users on Wikipedia, are not great. He still reverts things I do without discussing them with me, and if he does post something on my talk page, it's almost always a warning for something. He's also deleted all the links on a page that have been there for 5 weeks; nobody that has looked at the page in this time, including people that make good contributions to Wikipedia, has had a problem with the links being there, but he has decided to delete each and every single one of them. If he isn't willing to stop doing this, then I'm not going to continue using Wikipedia. I don't need people like him doing the things that he does. -- JD talkemail 22:39, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Satisfied, as always, I never attack any user and always try to assume good faith. I have outlined my reasons in discusion for removal of the message on the talk page (which could be read from the history anyway), and I would never remove messages that don't break policy. -- 9  cds (talk) 22:42, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Just close this thing, I'm deleting my account. -- JD talkemail 22:57, 7 June 2006 (UTC) Okay I don't know how to do that. Either way, I can't be bothered anymore. -- JD talkemail 22:59, 7 June 2006 (UTC)