Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-10-08 Nicole Kidman

Mediation Case: 2006-10-08 Nicole Kidman
Please observe Etiquette and Talk Page Etiquette in disputes. If you submit complaints or insults your edits are likely to be removed by the mediator, any other refactoring of the mediation case by anybody but the mediator is likely to be reverted. If you are not satisfied with the mediation procedure please submit your complaints to Wikipedia talk:Mediation Cabal.

Request Information

 * Request made by: Amerindianarts 00:49, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Where is the issue taking place?
 * Nicole Kidman


 * Who's involved?
 * User:Sliat 1981 and others


 * What's going on?
 * User:Sliat 1981 has continually made claims as to nationality which are unsourced, and has continually been reverted by multiple users. Has refused to discuss it on the talk page, and has ignored a talk page consensus contrary to his claim.  Living persons bios require citation for claims.  The facts are she is dual national, with residences in both Australia and American. To state she is either Aussie or American is to make a claim.  His view is that "She is Australian whether you like it or not" (edit summary), and that she considers herself Australian.  If she does, fine, but it needs to be reputably sourced, and even then may not be lead paragraph material, but rather integrated into the main body content.


 * ''What would you like to change about that?
 * Stop the revert war and refer to the talk page until the issue is further discussed. Other users particioating on the talk page have been informed but have yet to reply.


 * Would you prefer we work discreetly? If so, how can we reach you?
 * However.

Compromise offers
This section is for listing and discussing compromise offers.



Discussion

 * I have that page on my monitor list. Unfortunately, due to personal issues, I have been unable to contribute recently to my usual level, so Amerindianart's requests for me to participate in the talk page have gone unanswered.  I am not, however, one of the people directly involved in the dispute.  My understanding is that Kidman is a dual-national but is primarily identified as Australian.  That said, I believe it is misleading to list "Australian" in the opening paragraph or, indeed, elsewhere unless it is also noted that she holds American citizenship.  (At least, that's my understanding).  In other words, I basically agree with Amerindianarts, with the possible exception that she is primarily held to be Australian, at least here in Canada.  --Yamla 02:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I am receptive to and agreeable to whatever is decided. I have no opinion but would like to see agreement as to what is factual. I watched User:Sliat 1981 and User:Slf67 go at reverting each other for quite awhile before I stepped in to put an end to their war.  I do believe that guidelines for bios on living persons would distinguish between what is factual and what is claimed to be factual in this case.  Whatever the case may be, a consensus is needed in order to stop the constant revisions. Amerindianarts 03:21, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I object to this being referred to as my war with Sliat 1981. Sliat 1981's edits have been reverted by Sarah Ewert (administrator), Merbabu, and yourself Amerindianarts, all far more experienced than I, and to some extent I was following their guidance.  Indeed in  Sarah explicitly reverted the paragraph "back to pre-Sliat 1981". --Steve/slf67 04:41, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Steve/slf67's objection is irrelevent here, and does not address the issue at hand. My objection is his and Sliat 1981's revisions of each other for several days without resorting once to the talk page to resolve the issue, and with no else intervening.  Steve/slf67's should stop crying and make attempts to resolve the issue on talk pages.  I have advised that perhaps he put his money where his mouth is and could inform the other users he refers to to visit Kidman's talk page and get some input and resolve the dispute.  It doesn't appear that a mediator is going to handle this and I am sorry I tried to use Wiki guidelines to implement a resolution to the senseless, constant revisions which have taken place without resorting to discourse. A resolution so that the page can be freed should be the priority now.  Not whining and crying. I tried to get Sliat 1981 to the talk page and succeeded only after filing for mediation.  05:14, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh dear. Amerindianarts does seeem to be an insulting little prick, who thinks he can make random accusations and then cry foul when those accused disagree with his accusations.  I've made my point on the Kidman talk page.  --Steve 05:59, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not a little prick. I'm a big prick. Amerindianarts 06:14, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * To user Steve please refer to Wiki guidelines here: Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. . Amerindianarts 06:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, understood and my apologies. --Steve 06:31, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * As an outside source, I watched HBO First Look this evening, I actually heard Nicole Kidman interviewed, and wanted to quickly find out her nationality. It's rather notable that it's something that nobody can decide on.  However, if someone has claims that she believes herself Australian, and those claims are disputed, then those claims need to be backed up with proof.  Bastiq ▼ e demandez 01:59, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me, have a look on the discussion page for this article. I have numerous proof. And I will revert it. You have simply ignored my opinions and just reverted it without reaching a compromise. I will edit it as you had no right to touch it yet. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sliat 1981 (talk • contribs) 09:38, 18 October 2006.

Ok, let's try this: Which country is she a naturalized citizen of? Just list the one she was born in as her country of origin, and the one she lives in as her coutnry of residence. Shadow1 (talk) 17:36, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


 * She was born in the U.S. and, I believe, lives in Australia. --Yamla 17:43, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * She was born in the US and has residences in both countries. In recent articles since her marriage to Urban she has been emphatic above her love of Nashville and living there. Her statements about either should be considered, for the reasons of publicity, fans, etc., as guarded in any event. The issue of whether she is one or the other seems too controversial to state either and should be left as "dual citizenship".  Articles used to cite one or the other can really not be said to be authoritative, being limited to the whimseys of entertainment and not fact. Amerindianarts 19:17, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * After checking various bios (Mel Gibson, Russell Crowe, Naomi Watts, Keith Urban, Errol Flynn) and the list of Australian actors it seems the Wiki precedent is to name the person as to citizenship. Gibson is listed as "American" stating that he maintained US citizenship after moving to and living in Australia for twelve years.  One would assume that perhaps his family may have applied for Aussie citizenship after all those years, but the article does not refer to citizenship as such and lists him as an American actor, even if included on the Wiki list of Australian actors.  Flynn is listed as Australian: there is no reference to American citizenship (he may not have applied).  Others are listed according to birthplace and applied citizenship. Amerindianarts 19:37, 18 October 2006 (UTC)