Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-10-15 Sir Winston Churchill

Mediation Case: Knowledge Map and Views of Wiki Pages
Please observe Etiquette and Talk Page Etiquette in disputes. If you submit complaints or insults your edits are likely to be removed by the mediator, any other refactoring of the mediation case by anybody but the mediator is likely to be reverted. If you are not satisfied with the mediation procedure please submit your complaints to Wikipedia talk:Mediation Cabal.

Request Information

 * Request made by: Arnold Villeneuve 15:26, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Arnold Villeneuve


 * Where is the issue taking place?
 * ...Sir Winston Churchill and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle Wiki page under External Links


 * Who's involved?
 * ...Respective Editors and Arnold Villeneuve


 * What's going on?
 * ...Knowledge Map, Knowledge View, and Mind Map views of the Wiki page are being removed from the External Links section. We produce a Knowledge View of the Wiki page and then allow reader to use it to explore the thematic content of the Wiki page. We produce a Mind Map of the Wiki page so that readers can look at the page graphically and also access the Knowledge View of the page. We also produce a Knowledge Map of all of the Author's writings (in this case Sir Winston Churchill) from the public domain collection on Gutenberg and allow the reader to explore the collection using a thematic knowledge map. We had select Churchill in order to create a demonstration for the Wikipedia Foundation so we could approach them about creating a fundraising vehicle but the External links were removed before we could even contact them.


 * ''What would you like to change about that?
 * ...I would like to get feed back telling me what I need to change within our Knowledge Map, Knowledge View, and Mind Map Knowledge Interfaces(TM) so that the Wikipedia Editor will allow me to post these external links in the future without disruption. We would like to change our Knowledge Interfaces so that all of the Wikipedia community Editors know that they are "Wiki approved" so that we can continue our work. Just tell us what we need to change and we will do what we can to accomodate.


 * Would you prefer we work discreetly? If so, how can we reach you?
 * ...I would prefer that the discussion was held in the open and within the community. We believe that free access to our Knowledge Maps and Knowledge Views is in keeping with the Wikipedia goal of knowledge generation and dessimination.
 * Personal contact information removed from page. If a mediator takes the case and requests the information, I will happily provide it (or they can see the revision history for this page). ~Kylu ( u | t )  02:33, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Please see Knowledge Maps on the Discussion page for Sir Winston Churchill for more information.

Thank you.

Arnold Villeneuve 15:26, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Mediator response

 * Note to mediator: The applicable talk section seem to be Talk:Winston Churchill. ~Kylu ( u | t )  02:33, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not really mediation, but a unique enough circumstance that I feel inclined to "take the case" and try to develop a solution. ~Kylu ( u | t )  16:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Compromise offers
This section is for listing and discussing compromise offers.



Discussion

 * I am curious why this is in mediation (which is normally used to resolve disputes and differences) rather than bring brought up to WikiProject Biography or the Village Pump? Is there a dispute involved? Also, the article names in this case are correctly Winston Churchill and Arthur Conan Doyle (Typically, honorifics are not used as part of the name in an Encyclopedia, even if it would be full and proper to refer to them otherwise.) ~Kylu ( u | t )  02:33, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I am curious why this is in mediation (which is normally used to resolve disputes and differences) rather than bring brought up to WikiProject Biography or the Village Pump? Is there a dispute involved? Also, the article names in this case are correctly Winston Churchill and Arthur Conan Doyle (Typically, honorifics are not used as part of the name in an Encyclopedia, even if it would be full and proper to refer to them otherwise.) ~Kylu ( u | t )  02:33, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Follow Up
Hello Kylu

Thank you for your follow up. This is not about the accuracy of the information within a specific Wikipedia page but rather about how it is presented through third party Knowledge Generation and Presentation means. Cirilab is attempting to present the Wikipedia and Gutenberg user communities with a different view of the information provided by these two formidable information sources. We provide a freely available "information triage" view of information that allows the Reader to locate the information they are interested in much faster and more efficiently. Access to the Knowledge Interface views of the Gutenberg and Wikipedia information is free and open to everyone.

Just to recap, we do not provide original content. What we do is take Gutenberg and Wikipedia content and re-present it in a new way that is easier for Readers to navigate and research. We believe this functions and features are within Wikipedia's goals and vision. Not everybody wants to read the entire document!

Unfortunately, access to our Knowledge Map and Knowledge Views of Gutenberg and Wikipedia information have been delete by Wikipedia Editors from the External Links section of Wiki Pages, in this case, for Sir Winston Churchill which we were using as a test example of how we can present your information to Readers in a more efficient manner.

We can present this information separately and on our own which we do currently. However, we believe that Wikipedia Editors and more importantly Readers will benefit from the free Knowledge Maps and Views that our technology generates and that we are willing to provide access to for all.

All we are looking for at this point is guidance on what is required to change our current Knowledge Maps and Knowledge Views in order to create a standard that is acceptable to Wikipedia so that we can post them within the External Links of Wiki pages. That's all.

And so far we have not met with any luck nor much assitance other than to say "you can't do that". We want Wikipedia to tell us what we can do with our re-presentation of their data so that we can post access to our Knowledge Maps and Knowledge Views on the respective and related Wikipedia pages.

That's why we are at the stage we are at and requesting intervention.

Arnold Villeneuve 03:26, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Mr. Villeneuve,
 * Mediation is typically for specific parties who present a dispute that can be mediated between those parties. Mediation is not, regardless of the "case" nomenclature, any sort of on-site judiciary. Mediation has no binding effect, simply a means for two parties to present their disagreement and then, with the assistance of a neutral third party (the mediator) develop a solution which brings an amicable ending to the dispute, preferably to the satisfaction of all parties involved. Part of my concern in this situation is that there does not seem to be a coherent second party that you've named, other than perhaps "the whole of Wikipeida", since it is the community itself that decides upon the content of Wikipedia's entries and not any given individual.
 * I would suggest, and you may consider this a step in developing a solution to the problem that you've brought to us, that you post your ideas for content to both Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography to get a small input sampling, as well as perhaps Village pump (proposals).
 * Quite importantly, make sure you stress if the information you are submitting is licensed under the GFDL, and you may also wish to stress the licensing method that Project Gutenberg follows. This may then be followed with talks between Project Gutenberg and Wikipedia to determine if our licensing is mutually acceptable. In the event that this information is licensed in such a way that they are incompatible, there is quite a good chance that in fact you will be unable to submit the information to Wikipedia, though I have a suspicion that this is not the case and that a solution will be found.
 * Hopefully this is an acceptable answer to you. Thanks! ~Kylu ( u | t )  16:10, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * p.s. :If you'd be so kind, after presenting your ideas to both the above forums, please let me know so we can track the progress on these pages. ~Kylu ( u | t )  16:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for following and your suggestion
Kylu: Thank you most sincerely. The answers you have provided are great. I will take my case / idea to WikiProject:Biography and Wikipedia:Village Pump.

I have also determined from other comments that what I need to be able to do is host the Knowledge Interface web pages either on a Wikipedia server or a neutral server that has no ties to Cirilab and that the resulting output should not have any information about Cirilab or advertisers on it. That won't raise money for Wikipedia but it may at least allow Readers to benefit from the Knowledge Interface functions and features to support information triage procedures.

I will also let you know what progress I make and follow up as soon as I do make some.

Arnold Villeneuve 21:13, 16 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm going ahead and closing it after nearly a month of inactivity. If there are further questions you have, Mr. Villeneuve, please don't hesitate to contact me on my talkpage. ~Kylu ( u | t )  04:36, 4 November 2006 (UTC)