Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-01-10 Chi-ling Lin

Mediation Case: 2007-01-10 Chi-ling Lin
Please observe Etiquette and Talk Page Etiquette in disputes. If you submit complaints or insults your edits are likely to be removed by the mediator, any other refactoring of the mediation case by anybody but the mediator is likely to be reverted. If you are not satisfied with the mediation procedure please submit your complaints to Wikipedia talk:Mediation Cabal.

Request Information

 * Request made by: Comatose51 05:30, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Chi-ling Lin
 * Where is the issue taking place?

User:Nationalist
 * Who's involved?

Nationalist is editing the above article to reflect his political views and personal believes without regards to discussions or consideration for Wikipedia's neutrality. For example, he changed "Taiwan" to "Republic of China", which is not a commonly known name. Although technically they are different, for most readers and in the context of most articles, Taiwan is the most common name. Next, he adds "She is a loyal citizen of the Republic of China". This is an unsubstantiated statement and completely irrelevant to the article itself. Lastly, he changes "Measurements: 34C 23.5 35 [1]" to "Measurements: 34D 23.5 35 [1]" even though it contradicts what is published by the links in the article.
 * What's going on?

I don't want to keep reverting the article but his edits are disruptive to Wikipedia and done without regards to other sources of information and are not limited to just this article.
 * ''What would you like to change about that?

I have no preference.
 * Would you prefer we work discreetly? If so, how can we reach you?

Mediator response
Wait on this one. Nationalist is being asked by numerous editors to stop making Taiwan->ROC changes in several articles so some other action may be forthcoming. Flakeloaf 03:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)


 * As predicted, that user is being cautioned from numerous editors for edit warring by adding the content mentioned in this mediation request. It would be inappropriate for us to discuss this until the offending behaviour slows down or an admin takes further action to protect Wikipedia from this content dispute.  Flakeloaf 07:10, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Compromise offers
This section is for listing and discussing compromise offers.



Discussion
My initial impression: The issue of her correct measurements should be resolved by consulting the source of those dimensions. Comatose's preferred numbers match those in the article's source, which appears to be reliable on its face. Nationalist, could you please source the dimensions you provided?


 * I personally don't really have a preference for one way or another but noticed that the numbers were changed by a non-registered user from its initial and cited value of "C". I figured it was minor vandalism and decided to fix it.  All I care about is that misinformation isn't be propogated by the Wikipedia.  Comatose51 15:55, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The issue of "ROC" vs. "Taiwan" is a matter for political scientists, not lowly volunteer mediators, but I'll wade in there and do what I can. To start, a bit about myself: I am a Canadian citizen of Caucasian descent with no experience in Chinese politics and, aside from a distant former significant other, no experience with anything distinctly Chinese whatsoever :). Like most westerners, I say "China" meaning the PRC, and "Taiwan" meaning an island off the cost of China with no implications as to its political status.

As a westerner who knows the difference between ROC and "The PRC", I know I am in the minority. To most of us, the term "Republic of China" is confusing, whereas "Taiwan" is immediately clear. To those who cannot make the distinction the name of the government that administers the island is not important; talk of someone's nationality speaks to their geographical origin and phenotype, not their political leanings. Those who do know the difference understand that Taiwan is administered by the government that once controlled all of China, while the present government of that nation-state claims to have inherited sovereignty over all of the ROC's former territories when it took power. Again, which government has rightful claim to the island is not for discussion here; the issue is which terminology would most reliably convey the idea of where this model calls home.

Wikipedia's own articles on both the ROC and Taiwan cleave your two conflicting perspectives cleanly by explaining that Taiwan is the name of the island, and "Republic of China" is the name of the state that administers that geographical area. Political_status_of_Taiwan goes on to describe a "policy of ambiguity" on exactly what Taiwan is, and Taiwan's disambiguation page shows a multitude of different interpretations for the word based on context. The history of the ROC, the PRC and their relationships with each other and the international community are not only outside the scope of this mediation (for now) but well outside of my current sphere of knowledge, though I'm sure you will both expand it before this discussion's over :)

With that said, to say someone is "Taiwanese" does not necessarily imply nationality; a Quebecois is also a Canadian, Welsh people are Brits and so forth. Therefore, the two terms - those being "Taiwanese" and "Citizen of the ROC" - appear to be interchangeable in that context, since all people born on Taiwan are Taiwanese, and the citizens of what remains of the ROC live on Taiwan. In my view, the two terms should therefore carry equal weight. In case of a "tie" one would turn to common usage but even this finds no remedy: Westerners call it "Taiwan" without any prejudice towards its statehood, the PRC calls it "Chinese Taipei" (though I've never met anyone who said they were "Taipeian") and the ROC names it after itself.

Incidentally, the phrase "Loyal citizen of the Republic of China" strikes me as spurious and stops a hair's breadth short of WP:NPOV. If she has demonstrated exceptional loyalty to the ROC, this claim should be substantiated with sources. If she is disloyal, sources should be found forthwith to comply with both NPOV and WP:BLP. Can you explain why choosing to represent the ROC's official airline implies loyalty to the ROC? Celine Dion may pitch Air Canada but that doesn't enhance my opinion of her as a Canadian. I'd recommend removing the phrase entirely, both to avoid inflaming ROC/PRC/Taiwan/pei tensions and to give the article a more encyclopedic tone. Flakeloaf 17:56, 20 January 2007 (UTC)