Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-03-10 Newroz as celebrated by Kurds

Mediation Case: 2007-03-10 Newroz as celebrated by Kurds
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Request Information

 * Request made by: Jeff3000 17:09, 10 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Where is the issue taking place?
 * On Norouz and Kurdish celebration of Newroz. On the talk pages Talk:Norouz, Talk:Kurdish_celebration_of_Newroz, Talk:Newroz_as_celebrated_by_Kurds, Talk:Newroz_as_celebrated_by_Kurds


 * Who's involved?
 * Jeff3000, Rayis, and Bertilvidet


 * What's going on?
 * The discussion original started with a merge suggestion of Kurdish celebration of Newroz into Norouz. The discussion centred around that the Kurdish celebration is no different that the general Persian/Iranian one and thus should be merged.  Others stated that the article was done in summary style and should stay.  After Kurdish celebration of Newroz was substationally added to and completely sourced, the discussion while still relating to the merge also involves the naming of the article for the Kurds.  The Kurds use the transliteration Newroz while Persians use Norouz.  Finally there is the issue of accuracy; the article is completely sourced, but some editors without giving their own sources place the accuracy tag on the article.


 * ''What would you like to change about that?
 * Currently the dispute has been put up at RFC but no one has come, and I've asked a couple admins to comment, which they haven't. We need someone from the outside who is not involved to give their opinion of the merge/name/accuracy.


 * Would you prefer we work discreetly? If so, how can we reach you?
 * Not really.

Mediator response
Hello, I will be glad to be your mediator. First off, is everyone here willing to give mediation a shot? If you guys are ok with mediation, please make a statement as to what you believe is correct. From there I will work on trying to get 3rd party input, and helping you all find a compromise. I am going to ask that we keep this to the facts, and try to keep an open mind as to possible compromises. If we can build a consensus, the changes to the article are likely to stick. —— Eagle 101  Need help? 04:04, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Administrative notes
If there are no objections in the next few days I will close this. --Ideogram 05:13, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Compromise offers
This section is for listing and discussing compromise offers.



Discussion
1) Kurds view the mythology of Newroz/Norouz differently than Persians. Jeff and I have added some sources highlighting these differences. I have no problem that some stuff about old persian sources are mentioned at the beginning of the article Newroz as celebrated by Kurds, however I do think that contemporary Kurds perceive this celebration quite differently than what persians may have in mind in terms of mythology.

2) Also many traditions that prevail among Persians regrading Norouz, are not practiced by the overwhelming majority of Kurds. Things that Khane tekani, Haft sin, Haji Firooz are alien stuff among at least 80% of Kurds.

3) At the moment, the word Newroz is a REDIRECT to Norouz which does not seem to be correct as it confuses people. I suggest the word Newroz be redirected to the currect article, i.e. Newroz as celebrated by Kurds.Heja Helweda 04:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, minding that the other user has not had a chance to comment, may I ask something? You mention that Newroz is a redirect to Norouz. Can you tell me why that is not correct, and could you try to take a guess as to why it is the way it is now? —— Eagle 101  Need help? 00:01, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The redirect is not correct because the traditions and myths in celebrations of Newroz and Norouz are not exactly the same as I explained above. I think the redirect was put in place by users who did not have a clear understanding of the Kurdish celebrations, and thought (wrongly) that just because of similarity of the names, they ought to be the same thing.Heja Helweda 05:12, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The mediation was not about this. In fact the main points of discussion between myself, Rayis, and Bertilvidet have been fixed, and we have consensus.  Heja helweda is bringing up other points which have, for the most part, are against the consensus among all the other editors. In fact Heja lumps me with himself in the first comment, and that is not true. The consensus over years was that, as many different traditions transliterate Norouz/Naw-Ruz/Newruz/etc differently, that all transliterations should redirect to one article, so that someone who is writing it Newruz, but wants the Persian festival doesn't go to the Kurdish or the Afghani or whatever other festival;  then all the specific versions of the festival have their content in that one page in Summary style with a link to their specific articles.  Regards, -- Jeff3000 05:59, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, have we managed to resolve everything that this mediation was opened up for? By the looks of User_talk:Eagle_101, We have agreement to close this case as a success. As far as that other issue, is that issue what the original 3 needed help resolving, if it is not, I suggest that you open a new mediation case about that. —— Eagle 101  Need help? 20:48, 25 March 2007 (UTC)