Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-05-03 Cults and new religious movements in literature and popular culture

Initial description of dispute
A dispute about insertion of material in the Cults and new religious movements in literature and popular culture article that one party describes as non-compliant with WP policies, and the other party disagrees with that assessment. An RfC filed yielded no results.

Notes on ongoing progress
HG has talked to Mr.Z-man and offers to assist with mediation. HG: I have background in the study of religion, though not specializing in NRMs or cults. Please let me know if you'd accept my involvement and any suggestions, too. If involved, I would collaborate with Mr.Z-man. Thanks.
 * Sure. Problem is that User:Dking is not engaging in the mediation (and he suggested to have it). ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 14:50, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Left some prelim q's on your talk page. I will try to explore issue with you and, once he responds, with Dking.HG 15:39, 10 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Can you please post the specific "insertion of material" in question onto the talk page of this Mediation page, for clarity in its own subsection? Smee 17:12, 10 May 2007 (UTC).
 * That is up to the mediator. Mediator may want to explore issues separately with me and Dking. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 17:18, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I was just curious if there was a concise bit of material in question, and I didn't necessarily want to wade through the whole history to find it. Smee 17:19, 10 May 2007 (UTC).
 * On the attached Talk page, I've listed key discussions of the article. Sorry, Smee, there isn't a concise material at stake. HG | Talk 18:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Both parties currently seem busy or on wikibreak. I have gotten brief responses from both. I also contacted Vassyana, who advised me briefly here on my talk page. Z-man, the lead mediator, has also been in touch with me on my talk page. HG | Talk 18:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I've made a series of recommendations and posed questions on the article's talk page. Please comment there, thanks! HG | Talk 20:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks to Z-man and Jossi for responding on the talk page. Jossi raised points and made an interesting proposal, I've now asked questions back. Smee and Vassyana also saw my suggestions (as noted on my User talk page). We also need to give DKing time to see this and respond.HG | Talk 08:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Both parties have been in conversation on the article's talk page. Dking proposed a new intro. Jossi has responded, though expressed a sense of futility. Smee and Z-man have sought to contribute and keep things on an even keel. There are some indications that the parties might (1) wordsmith a description of 'cult' within a broad, even contradictory semantic range, and (2) work on criteria for applying NRM and 'cult' within the article, then (3) apply the criteria to specific groups under consideration. (Personally, I guess I've been on wikibreak -- and I'm pleased that, even under the strain of strong disagreement, the parties continue to discuss substantive matters and are trying their best to be civil. With both enduring some less civil comments.) HG | Talk 05:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Some progress has been made on the Talk page, in my opinion, in getting closer to a possible compromise. Apparently, though, Jossi has decided not to pursue the matter further, per his response here. Ideally, the mediators could work with the remaining party (DKing) on a reasonable approach to the article, though I'm not sure that either of us has time currently. HG | Talk 01:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

What would you like to change about that?

 * Provide assistance in establishing the validity or lack of validity of the material.

Request: Ground rules
I am concerned about Dking use of rhetoric and accusations of bad faith and assessment of my motives. Unless he engages civilly and to the point. addressing the arguments on their merits, and working toward a compromise, I am not interested in pursuing mediation. I expect a retraction from DKing and a statement of his intention to find a suitable compromise in this mediation. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 15:45, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Administrative notes
Smee asked to be notified of mediation effort's outcome.HG | Talk 08:21, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Based on the lack of conversation and after discussion with the mediator, the case seems stale, so I'm closing it. Wizardman  20:36, 26 October 2007 (UTC)