Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-08-24 Birmingham pub bombings

Who are the involved parties?

 * User:Aatomic1
 * User:Brixton Busters
 * User:Domer48
 * User:Bastun
 * User:Hughsheehy
 * User:Conypiece
 * User:BigDunc
 * User:padraig
 * User:W. Frank
 * User:GiollaUidir (Mediation nominator)
 * + assorted anonymous ip's and suspected puppets.

What's going on?
The article Birmingham pub bombings has a section that lists the 21 people killed in the bombings. The section exists purely as a list of names and ages. There is currently a dispute as to whether or not it breaches:-WP:NOT, WP:NOT and/or WP:NOT and whether it adheres to WP:NOTE.

The page has already been fully protected and is currently (24th of August) on semi-protection due to an edit war over the past 24hrs.

There has already been an attempt at resolution through a Help Desk request, see. This, however, was inconclusive.

What would you like to change about that?
Guidance as to whether or not lists of bombing victims who were not notable before death should be included as a list in articles such as the one in question as per the aforementioned WikiPolicy documents.

Mediator notes
This article closed itself, the moment I arrived on scene. Dr ea  my  \*/!$! 21:54, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * What?! Can you explain, please? Bastun BaStun not BaTsun 22:31, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I must reopen the case, as new things have come to light. Dr  ea  my  \*/!$! 23:21, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not overly familiar with this process - what's the next step? People make their statements?  If so, where? Bastun BaStun not BaTsun 23:26, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Discussion
Request Per the discussion here, I would like to see this case also cover the Omagh bombing - editors and issue are pretty much identical. Bastun BaStun not BaTsun 08:43, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur. I also deprecate the fact that I was not notified of this discussion - even though I have discovered (50 hours later and by accidentally checking Bastun's contributions today) that I am named in it! As per the sentiments expressed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:W._Frank/Accusations_of_collaboration:_3RR_hurts_Wikipedia#Postscript
 * It might also assist clarity and reduce ambiguity (and thus assist a consensual resolution) if the "assorted anonymous ip's and suspected puppets" were specified. Frank84.13.10.123 14:19, 26 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I realise that sending my views by email wasn't the most helpful...sorry about that. Just on the record my view is that at least the names, and preferably eventually a treatment of the deaths, types of injuries, etc, of the victims belongs on the article.  I cannot understand any argument that there should be an article on a bombing but that the people bombed shouldn't be discussed.  Bizarre.  Hughsheehy 14:58, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Is this where Wikipedia wide policy is about to be decided, or is this just covering lists of dead from NI incidents in the troubles, or is it just the Birmingham Pub Bombings? --81.132.246.132 17:31, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

No, just the specified articles. Dr ea my \*/ !$!  16:31, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Articles - so this is covering the Omagh bombing too? Both myself and Brixton Busters have asked what happens now - will you be in a position to tell us soon? Bastun BaStun not BaTsun 17:52, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I still have to listen to the third party that is heavily involved. Then I will consider what should happen, and my advice. Dr ea my  \*/ !$!  19:50, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll be travelling until 4 October 2007. Please e-mail me if anything requires my input, but I assume that this case is moribund? W. Frank talk ✉ 02:04, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

The "Specified articles" must be ALL deaths linked to the conflict in NI. On the Bloody Sunday (1972) article the death are listed whilst not for the Birmingham or Guildford bombings. Is this an atteppt to make "Brits" mere statistics but elevate others to innocent martyrs? --MJB 08:22, 10 November 2007 (UTC)