Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2007-09-22 Delta Sigma Theta

Who are the involved parties?

 * Justinm1978
 * M. (er)

What's going on?
User:Justinm1978 is making a point to take out the title of NPHC organizations, "Sorority, Incorporated in Delta Sigma Theta, Sigma Gamma Rho one without an edit summary here, and here (almost breaking 3RR), and Zeta Phi Beta    in order to prove a point and assume original research that businesses are the only ones which are incorporated, not non-profit organizations as seen with incorporated. The XXX Sorority/Fraternity, Incorporated are considered to be "official titles." He is removing them to the extent of breaking 3RR, which is IMHO, being disruptive. The organization Delta Sigma Theta is referenced to two organizations, a male pharmacy organization and a a sorority consisting of primarily African-American females. Even the websites refer to the organization's title as XXX Sorority, Incorporated, as seen below:
 * 1) Alpha Kappa Alpha - title of the organization's web page and graphics references itself to "Sorority, Incorporated"
 * 2) Delta Sigma Theta - title of the organization's web page and graphics references itself to "Sorority, Incorporated"
 * 3) Sigma Gamma Rho - title of the organization's web page and graphics references itself to "Sorority, Incorporated"
 * 4) Zeta Phi Beta - organization references itself to Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated

From the article, incorporated can be referred to: [a] a non-profit organization or even a government of a new city or town.

Conclusion: Reliable sources should be used in order to determine the title of the article instead of original research. M. (er) 03:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * This is an incorrect description of what is going on. I stated that having incorporated in the title, then describing as a non-profit in the same sentence or even the next one is redundant, not "businesses are the only ones which are incorporated".  Furthermore, she is only interested in the changes made to these articles, while this change has been happening to multiple Greek-Lettered Organizations with no objections from anyone but her.  She is raising this objection because she doesn't agree with the change applying to NPHC organizations, even though the only Featured Article close to this does not use the "Incorporated" name in it's title or description, while it's website does refer to it in that manner (as well as without the "Incorporated").  If she was truly concerned about this, she would be contesting this on other articles than the ones she has been primary author on.
 * While the webpages deliniate the business as "XXX Sorority, Inc.", in keeping with the naming scheme of all other similar pages as well as their commonly-recognized names, dropping of the "Sorority, Inc." has been uncontested on all pages expcet these. She has taken too much of a personal interest in these, and is being disruptive to collaboration and unwilling to allow any version but hers to stand, as shown by her inability to collaborate with other editors on many other aspects of these articles.   have written a formal contact to the national offices of each of these groups to ask how they would be identified in a page such as this.


 * Since she is claiming disruptiveness, here are her revert to the articles:.


 * Delta Sigma Theta -
 * Zeta Phi Beta
 * Sigma Gamma Rho -


 * I wish to reiterate that this was not an issue on many other articles, including other NPHC articles but also several other greek life articles, until the edit was applied to one which Miranda edits on a regular basis. Even my move of Iota Phi Theta, which I had noted I wanted to do for two months went completely unconstested (consequently, I think I botched the talk page move, could someone help me out and get that done right?  I always mess that up for some reason).

Alternate conclusion - Article titles should adhere to standards set by other Good Articles/Featured Articles in the Greek Life arena as to add consistency, standardization, and credibility to the articles and the Greek Life contributions on Wikipedia as a whole. Having consistent articles leads to more articles getting promoted as GA/FA, and also cuts down on the AfD's that happen to Greek Life articles that end up being written more like a rush flyer than an encyclopedic article. Justinm1978 04:56, 22 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it would be redundant to bring up the issue of deleting a word/words on other talk pages, due to lack of time? And, the conversation which is relevant to all other sorority's pages can be discussed on one page would work well for all parties involved. M. (er) 04:36, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

What would you like to change about that?
Make the sorority/fraternity pages which have incorporated in their titles to "xxx Sorority/Fraternity, Incorporated." Note: I am not saying that the title of the article should be renamed, but the title in the text of the article should be "XXX Sorority, Incorporated," because of it's legal name. M. (er) 07:06, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Make the fraternity/sorority pages more universal by using just their Greek letters in their titles, as all national GLO's are incorporated in one way or another. (Justinm1978)

Notes from Parties Involved
In a previous mediation case, Justin has argued for the legal status of "social fraternities v. service fraternities". I am only wanting to advocate the legal status of the sororities/fraternities in the text of the article. For example, Justin is advocating for Alpha Kappa Alpha, without determining if the organization is a sorority/fraternity, includes both sexes, etc. I am advocating for the entire legal title of the organization "XXX Sorority/Fraternity Incorporated" to be on the article. M. (er) 07:31, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Possible Solution: I will e-mail each of the nine fraternities and sororities in the NPHC asking them this question about the incorporation issue. When I receive the responses, I will forward them to OTRS and let them handle the situation. It's not up to me and Justin to argue/decipher the points of whether or not incorporated should be used in each article, but the organizations themselves. M. (er) 06:52, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I have tried to e-mail each of the nine organization's communications departments and/or executive directors regarding this issue, except for Iota Phi Theta, which uses web-based e-mail. So far I have received a bounce back e-mail from Omega Psi Phi. I will be forwarding all responses to OTRS, so that they can enact some sort of action regarding this matter. The OTRS team may or may not leave a comment here regarding the situation. However, since I have e-mailed the organizations concerned, I can only leave it to the organizations themselves to comment fully on the matter rather than myself. M. (er) 08:18, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I changed the title to Alpha Kappa Alpha in the title paragraph, but later included the incorporation name in the 1912-1913 paragraph, as seen here. I have noticed the Alpha Phi Alpha article does this, and I think it would be best as a precursor for all NPHC fraternity/sorority articles? Agree? Miranda  22:05, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I like that change a lot. I'd certainly agree to this being the gold standard, so to speak, on how to address this in similar articles. Justinm1978 22:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I haven't received any correspondence from the organizations involved regarding this conflict. Miranda  22:07, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Neither have I, but I've also been largely unavailable as of late, and not checking my email much. Justinm1978 22:44, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Mediator notes
If no one objects, I'd like to mediate this case. <font face="Verdana,Arial,Helvetica"> CO 2 17:38, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * CO, thanks for helping. But I am sorry, I know you, and you might have bias towards my argument. :-(. Thanks for volunteering. <font face="georgia" color="#084C9E">M. <font face="georgia" color="#4682b4">(er) 00:25, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with Miranda's objection. Thank you for volunteering, though. Justinm1978 01:17, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not exactly familiar with either of you, though I have had a run in with Miranda once I think. If no one objects I would be willing to take it on. -- Тhε Rαnδom Eδιτor 03:57, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * TRE has retired. :-( <font face="georgia" color="#E75480">Miranda  22:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Discussion
I guess we can mark this as close now, since an agreement has been made. <font face="georgia" color="#E75480">Miranda  10:07, 11 October 2007 (UTC)