Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-08-27 2008 attack during the Olympics


 * Note: Please limit posts to this page to brief statements about the nature of the dispute until a volunteer adopts the case. Keep ongoing discussions about the topic to the appropriate talk page(s), but feel free to provide links to the talk page(s) where discussion has happened (and may be ongoing) for the convenience of the informal mediator and other parties. This will help keep discussion from fragmenting out across more pages and make it easier for a volunteer to review the case. Thanks!

Who are the involved parties?

 * if I was being humorous, I would say no one knows?! it seems certain admins are on here (and who knows why?). they seem to have been checking or patrolling new articles. seeking to create drama, they are arguing picayune and inane details. Thunderstruck45 (talk) 14:49, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

What's going on?

 * wrong? no, I think defending ethics, morals, etc. is noble. I would say that rarely are so many people concerned about something they would otherwise have no interest in. rather than insert about 40 paragraphs, I will be concise and say I am not pleased with the lack of common sense here. let's see, it is totally WRONG and disrespectful to entitle this article with the word stabbing(s). that is just one thing that needs to cease. Thunderstruck45 (talk) 14:52, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This sockpuppeteer user has not offered any conclusive or helpful edits to the page since it started. Their only contribution has been also moving the page about and replacing "attack" wherever "stabbings" appeared  , as well as arguing down and harrassing other users. This user has also not engaged in any discussion to ask for Consensus and unilaterally makes their own changes. As such, this mediation case should not solely be based on this incoherent user. .:davumaya:. 19:13, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Who are the involved parties? What's going on?

 * 10:40, 10 August 2008 User:Benji64 (Talk | contribs) (313 bytes) (← Created page with 'Todd Bachman
 * 11:03, 10 August 2008 User:Mboverload (Talk | contribs) m (moved Todd Bachman to 2008 Olympics attack on American nationals: Moving to a page describing the event, not just one person in it. Story is larger than Todd but he is a major player
 * 17:37, 11 August 2008 User:Twas Now (Talk | contribs) m (moved 2008 Olympics attack on American nationals to 2008 Olympics attack on tourists:A Chinese tour guide was also injured in the attack, perhaps incidentally)
 * 05:48, 15 August 2008 User:Tesscass (Talk | contribs) m (moved 2008 Olympics attack on American nationals to Attack on tourists during Beijing Olympics: Move to more accurate title)
 * 07:46, 15 August 2008 User:WWGB (Talk | contribs) m (moved Attack on tourists during Beijing Olympics to 2008 Olympics attack on American nationals over redirect: "New" title is no more helpful, attacked tour guide was not a tourist.
 * 09:49, 15 August 2008 User:PalaceGuard008 (Talk | contribs) m (moved 2008 Olympics attack on American nationals to 2008 Beijing Drum Tower stabbing: it's got nothing to do with the Olympics except coincidence (i.e. timing))
 * 08:09, 17 August 2008 User:Michael Hardy (Talk | contribs) m (moved 2008 Beijing Drum Tower stabbing to 2008 Beijing Drum Tower stabbings: Yes, I know: This article has been moved around a lot. But the plural is appropriate.)
 * 17:01, 19 August 2008 User:Overmoon (Talk | contribs) m (moved 2008 Beijing Drum Tower stabbings to Attack at Beijing Drum Tower during 2008 Olympics: I believe this is not a controversial move.
 * 16:27, 24 August 2008 User:Ohconfucius (Talk | contribs) m (moved Attack at Beijing Drum Tower during 2008 Olympics to August 9, 2008 attack on American tourists at Beijing Drum Tower: more specific title. The tourists happened to be in Beijing for the Olympics)
 * 18:38, 24 August 2008 User:WWGB (Talk | contribs) m (moved August 9, 2008 attack on American tourists at Beijing Drum Tower to Attack at Beijing Drum Tower during 2008 Olympics over redirect: Not all the victims were American.) (undo)
 * 10:54, 26 August 2008 User:PalaceGuard008 (Talk | contribs) m (moved Attack at Beijing Drum Tower during 2008 Olympics to 2008 stabbings at Beijing Drum Tower)
 * 22:01, 27 August 2008 User:Thunderstruck45 (Talk | contribs) m (moved 2008 stabbings at Beijing Drum Tower to 2008 attack during the Olympics) (undo)
 * 22:15, 27 August 2008 User:Ohconfucius (Talk | contribs) m (moved 2008 attack during the Olympics to 2008 stabbings at Beijing Drum Tower over redirect)
 * 22:37, 27 August 2008 User:Thunderstruck45 (Talk | contribs) m (moved 2008 stabbings at Beijing Drum Tower to 2008 attack during the Olympics over redirect: alright, enough! Stabbings is totally inappropiate. it is an insult; the word is never used like this.)

What would you like to change about that?
This article has been moved 13 times since its creation earlier this month, because each has a very particular objection to something about the title. It seems like nobody is talking to nobody else, or nobody is Listening to others' objections. Some editor(s) have been exhibiting aggressive behaviour, and inflaming the situation. I would like fory the shenanegans to stop, and all parties to sit down sensibly and agree to a title along the lines of "Death of Todd Bachman" or "[date] [event] [where]". Let's face it, if the spotlight wasn't on Beijing, there would have been nothing notable about this event. Maybe we could all agree to delete it? ;-) Ohconfucius (talk) 14:55, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Discussion
Firstly, thunderstruck aka crashingthewaves (sockpuppetry is evil) has been further inflaming the situation by basically going after everyone involved and telling them to "avoid" touching the page or something to that effect. (see User talk:Twas Now and User talk:Mboverload and User talk:Elliskev to name a few. This user's actions have prompted a lot of confusion and headache beyond such. I personally of course have been a little inflammatory WP:POINT and dismissive of the page in my latest proposal to AfD #3.  Nonetheless, I have contained the discussion within the context of the page and have not sought to bother anyone beyond that. ANYWAY to actually address this sockpuppeteer's point, it's true the page has changed dozens of times. There is no Consensus on the page's existence to begin with, thus prompting a rather trivial move-a-thon. This is the same reason we have had zero Consensus in the talk page about what to do with the page itself. As such Ohconfucius may be right that we may simply have to agree to delete it (again). .:davumaya:. 18:37, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * While deleting the article would get rid of the move war (there would be nothing to move) I don't think that is the best option. Just because an article is being attacked by sockpuppeteer's, is not a good reason to delete the page.  Get rid of the sockpuppeteer's and settle on whichever title seems the least controversial (I like the current one myself...).  Don't get me wrong, I hate the edit war going on and the fact that sockpuppets are being used by one user mostly to cause the havoc, but that havoc doesn't warrant deleting the page.  If there's any question left about the sockpuppeting accusation, I can provide proof of that needed to block the accounts and get on with life. -JWGreen (talk) 00:15, 28 August 2008 (UTC)