Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2008-12/Ghosts of Onyx

Where's the dispute?
The Halo: Ghosts of Onyx article.

What's the dispute?
After a long absence I returned to a page I spent some time editing and I notice that the plot summary was highly inaccurate after changing it around user David Fuchs keeps changing it back to his version because of violations to WP:PLOT the original edit I made was over 900 word compared to the original 655 words that made up the plot, spending a long time fixing I was finally able to get it down to about 756 words and edited the article. Everything was fine until my version was once again changed recently.

This user continues to deny me my right to contribute, I've contacted the user in an attempt to settle this, perhaps even collaborate on being more informative while adhering to the rules. I've tried everything I could to fix the article but I'm still denied to edit. I love wiki but this has really made me lose a lot of faith in a users ability to contribute something, anything to wiki. And as a Halo fan I am truly discouraged and even angered by the fact that my knowledge of the series and mythology is pushed aside by David and others.

Mediator Notes
Reading backround. Playoffs? PLAYOFFS?! (talk) 03:55, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Apologies, many apologies. Regained old account. Let's never have that happening again, shall we? Let's move on with the mediation. I'd like to see the views from the parties involved at this point. Concrete Complex (talk) 04:09, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Discussion
Hello, Concrete Complex. I hope I am doing this in the right place, if not please let me know on my talk page, anyway I am here, and ready to settle this matter.

Although the WP:PLOT says that plot lines should be between 300 to 500 words, the current plot summary for Ghosts of Onyx is 655. After careful reading, and please correct me if I am wrong the WP:PLOT never really states that plot summary's MUST be only 300 to 500 words. And also goes on to say that one version must not be considered over the other, simply put, do not say your version is the definitive version. All I would like is to have my revision which is around 750 words, be accepted as the more informative summary, there are several things that I've looked over that I would change if my version is allowed to stay on the page.

David however in my view at least, has made no effort what so ever to try to change the plot so it would better suit both of us, he again as I said above has ignored me for the most part and threatens to block me under the pretense that I am edit warring, which is not the case, all I am trying to do is improve what is there; I'm not trying to push aside his version for my own in fact all I've done is heavily modified his version to be more informative and accurate to what is actually in the Novel. Durandal-217 (talk) 21:27, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * PLOT is not a hard-and-fast rule, however it is sensible, particularly regarding WP:WAF's directive that "The length of a plot summary should be carefully balanced with the length of the other sections." Halo: Ghosts of Onyx is a minor notable book, and barring future information from the creator or a sudden resurgence of review and critique of the work, its "real world" sections, that of background and reception, is only five paragraphs in total to justify a plot summary. As such, when crafting the plot summary I ommited minor details that do not help readers understand the basic plot; names of minor characters, for example, as well as solar systems and the names of companies of soldiers which do not need to be referenced. Even Durandal's more slimmed-down edits confuse the plot to those who don't know Halo—he is writing with a level of detail reserved for fan encyclopedias such as Halopedia rather than our standards (by the way, you can read their no-holds barred plot). For example, the passage "the SPARTAN-III candidates undergo radical cybernetic and biological enhancements and are outfitted with special armor to increase their abilities." in the current revision was modified by Durandal in this version to read "the SPARTAN-III candidates are trained by Franklin Mendez and undergo radical biological augmentations. They are equipped with Semi Powered Infiltration Armor to increase their abilities." Semi Powered Infiltration Armor is special reactive armor which provides camoflauge, but unless you've read the book you wouldn't know it. It doesn't play a major role in the god's eye view of a plot summary, and is never fully explained so people are going to get lost in unfamiliar terms. Awkward sentence construction and grammatical errors made the revision a mess, so I reverted.


 * Finally: Durandal has been reverted by both me and at least two anonymous editors who concurred with my assessment. I have not threatened to block anyone, but noted that he could be blocked for edit warring and violation of 3rr; I did not block him as it would be inappropriate for the blocking admin to be in a content dispute. I reverted his edits once, and invited him to discuss the matter on the talk page: as evidenced by the history, he violated WP:3RR and followed up with a rant on my talk page which betrays his true intentions and feelings on the matter: that I am not a "true Halo fan". In short, while perhaps his attitude is acceptable at the fansites his userpage says he frequents, his attempt to "provide deeper insights to the Halo and Marathon mythologies" in this case means violated wikipedia guidelines and common sense. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk  ) 15:21, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, first, I'd ask for both of you to cool down the temperature- reading through the area of conflict has me feeling you two are at each other's throats. I'd hate to linkdrop but there is probably some bad faith issues here, but I'm going to assume you both have already familiarized yourselfs with WP:DR and the dispute resolution processes. David Fuchs, please keep in note that PLOT is a guideline. There have been other books with more words. Durandal-217, as in the above talk page link Fuchs just showed, yelling at each other is not going to make things any better.


 * Time to play teacher here. Fuchs, Durandal, is there no other way to fix this issue, no way to say merge your ideas together or patch this up yourselves minus the teeth gnashing that the MedCab is the only way to overcome this impasse? If not, skip this part and move on, but I'd like to see your real concerns. Like I said, lower the tempers here, guys. Concrete 23:44, 2 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well first of all I understand a lot of the things David is saying. However I still disagree with a great deal of things David has brought up. That aside I have come up with a idea: The current plot summary will stay, HOWEVER it must be modified to be more accurate. And in an effort to solve being more informative, without bogging it down with too many words, certain paragraphs will contain embedded links to their wiki page. (I don't know why this slipped my mind.)

Also, there are a great deal of inaccuracy's in the plot summary, I would like to list these errors in detail:

1. "Meanwhile, Colonel James Ackerson meets with the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI). Ackerson announces his plan to create a new breed of SPARTANs which retains much of the supersoldiers' effectiveness"
 * This is inaccurate, Ackerson never in any sense of the way announces he is going to create the S-III project. He moves forward a proposal for the S-IIIs which is later approved. Ghosts of Onyx Chapter 2 Page 46 "Parangosky scrolled ahead. "And you are proposing… ah, a SPARTAN-III program?" Her cast-iron expression didn't betray a hint of emotion." Chapter 2 Page 45 "Ackerson straightened and met Gibson's, Rich's, and then Parangosky's gazes. "I'm suggesting we need more Spartans." It also needs to be more specific, he meets with the top brass of ONI.

2. "Shaken by the massacre of his troops, Kurt improves the training regimen for his next batch of SPARTAN-III"
 * Shaken I believe is the wrong word to use. Kurt felt like he had lost he everything, devastated I believe is more appropriate. Ghosts of Onyx Chapter 8 Page 86 "Seeing them like this… it felt like someone had driven a metal spike into Kurt's chest." Page 87 "Seven years Kurt had trained them, and grown to respect them. Now they were dead. Their sacrifice had saved countless human lives, and yet Kurt still felt like he'd lost everything. He wanted to look away from the screen, but couldn't." Page 88 "Ashes. That's all Kurt felt." "Kurt felt the only thing he deserved was a court-martial, but he said nothing."

3. "and a few members of Gamma Company." Members is the wrong word to use, their were Three Teams present on Onyx during the attack. Of course only two survive the attack. Teams would be the more appropriate term.

4. "along with the SPARTAN Kelly-087 arrive in the Onyx system." I would change this to the following "along with the SPARTAN Kelly-087 arrive at Onyx" Sounds better.

5. *"Halsey sends a message back to Earth, which is under attack by Covenant" This needs to be change this to siege, considering most of the major city's on Earth have all but been destroyed, and a massive fleet engagement in orbit. Basically it is Armageddon.

6. "Both the Covenant and the UNSC forces which arrive at Onyx are attacked by Sentinels. The entire UNSC fleet at Onyx is destroyed by the ensuing battle, save for one stealth ship, the Dusk, which stays hidden, observing the events."
 * This is inaccurate as well, the UNSC fleet is never attacked by the sentinels, The Covenant fleet is however. The UNSC fleet is destroyed when additional Covenant reinforcements arrive.

7. "and are guided into a massive sphere by Dr. Halsey" Dome would be more appropriate. Unless you could be more specific as to what sphere she leads them into.

All of this needs to be fixed, and a lot of information needs to be added. Inside and outside of the article. Durandal-217 (talk) 19:42, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
 * All the above are accuracy issues which do not require massive amounts of new content to be fixed; all such considerations can be brought to the article's talk page or WT:HALO. As such, I'm not going to pay any more attention to this; mediation in this case is a waste of time to all concerned. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ( talk  ) 00:01, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * See, now this is what I'm talking about, I have never encountered such arrogance and ignorance in all my time here on wiki, I really don't understand why this guy is even allowed to be an editor or whatever he hell he does. This is the problem I have with this guy. Complete disregard of everybody else's opinions and attempts to solve a matter in a fair and honest way. I still stand by what I said: this man is a fraud, he is not a halo fan. Durandal-217 (talk) 02:08, 5 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Well. This is awkward. If mediation can't resolve it at this point, you may want to consider a request for Arbitration if this issue is really bad. I'm leaving this case open if either of the parties have anything else to say despite the abrupt ending. Concrete 16:27, 6 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Concrete, I would just like to say thank you for all of your help in this matter, I've tired all I could to be helpful and come to a fair conclusion for both party's to be satisfied, however as I've pointed out before David continues to persist with his arrogance this man simply does not want me to contribute, and I believe that is wrong, I again would like to thank you for all of your help in this mater, alas it seems this attempt has failed, I will take my case up with the Arbitrators and see what happens there. Durandal-217 (talk) 17:25, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Closed, as seeing there's nothing else I can do on this. Concrete 22:19, 9 January 2009 (UTC)