Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2009-09-17/Donghu

Where is the dispute?
The dispute is taking place regarding the article on the Donghu and its Discussion page.

Who is involved?

 * User:Alexjhu
 * User:Keahapana
 * User:John Hill

What is the dispute?
The dispute is very complex and involves the use of various Chinese terms to denote, particularly the term Hu 胡 which is commonly (and I would agree, wrongly) translated as "barbarian" in Western translations and texts. I have said in a recent note on the Discussion page that: "It would seem, then, that "Hu" was used to express the concept of "non-Chinese". Whether this was considered derogatory or not probably depended on the context." However, this does not seem to have satisfied Alexjhu who apparently is of the opinion that the Chinese never regarded other peoples as inferior - this is only an example of bigotry being promoted by talk and myself.

What would you like to change about this?
I think there is (as I mentioned above) a case to be made that some translations from Chinese insinuate greater prejudice on the part of the Chinese than is actually to be found in the original texts. However, Alexjhu seems to want to insist that this was never the case, that the Chinese never used the terms in a bad way, and that I am promoting ignorance and bigotry when I maintain that the term hu may sometimes have been used in a derogatory manner, and sometimes not. I think (hope) there may be room for mediation here - but I don't want to continue a shouting war with him and yet I certainly don't want a one-sided, unbelievable and inaccurate article to result from his edits. Perhaps mediation from a "higher authority" (yourselves) may be able to help????

How do you think we can help?
Perhaps there is some way to create a middle way through this morass - but you will need someone with a good knowledge of Chinese history and translations from it to give an informed view (and, perhaps, rewrite sections of the article in a fairly neutral way). However, I cannot accept Alexjhu's apparent position that the Chinese never used derogatory names for other peoples - see, for example, my latest "Extra Note on the use of derogatory terms in the Hou Hanshu" on the Donghu Discussion page at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Donghu.

Thank you for your consideration, John Hill (talk) 05:54, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Mediator notes

 * The primary issues have been resolved. Due to the diligent efforts of many helpful editors, the article is back on track.  User behavior issues appear to have been largely resolved.  —Beneficence  05:26, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Discussion
Can this be closed now? PhilKnight (talk) 22:04, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 * That would be fine with me, but I think we need to ask Alexjhu (who's been inactive recently). Thanks again for your help mediating. Keahapana (talk) 22:02, 11 July 2010 (UTC)