Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2009-11-23/Turks in Bulgaria

Where is the dispute?
See page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Turks_in_Bulgaria#Requested_to_Protect_this_Article

Who is involved?

 * User:Hittit
 * User:Kostja

What is the dispute?
An example of the dispute: User Kostja has a history of source missuse e.g., either uses original reserach and adds a random source or uses a source which does not reflect the content of what he writes. The outcome is suggestive text not in line with used footnotes. Eg. source describes that Seljuk Turks have settled in [Dobruja]] 13th century and that the tomb of a certain mystic is located in Babadag, Kostja writes "though according to these sources they settled in "Northern Dobruja". Source has never indicated that "North Dobruja" has been an exclusive point of settlement, there are at least ten sources among others the prominent Ottomanist Paul Wittek who only describe the Area as Dodbruja i.e South and North. Kostja's source is a Romanian writer with no English translation writing about Tatar population North of Dodbruja (not even the same topic), who only says that Babadag was the southern point of the Nogais Tatar.
 * In this particular case Babadag located in Northern Dobrudja is described as containing the tomb of Sari Saltic, a mystic associated with its early history as well as being founded by the Turks who settled there (and called Baba Saltic initially). This makes it completely justified to add that these Turks settled in Northerh Dobrudja according to the particular soucres cited. The article about Babadag also describes Babadag as the furthest outpost of the Turks, adding even more credence to the assertion that the Turks settled in Northern Dobrudja. In any case, I would say that User Hittit seems to think that a source can be used only to support information he submits and it's abuse if it's used in another way. He also seems to consider a source properly used only if it the text literally repeats the source which is in my opinion far too pedantic and completely ignores common sense. Kostja (talk) 21:27, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In this context you have a source saying this or this is your own research and conclusion?Pls provide a quote of this citation so we can see where does it say BabaSaltuk the last settlement of the Muslims. So if I can summaries all the bellow sources write that the Seljuk Turks of Kay-Kaus settled in Dobruja. Dobruja is mentioned directly as the area of settlement, (some of the sources go further and mentioned Dobruja and seprately included/described the area as both in Bulgaria and Romania):1)Ив. К. Димитровъ, Прѣселение на селджукски турци въ Добруджа около срѣдата на XIII вѣкъ, стр. 32—33 2)P. Wittek, Yazijioghlu 'Ali on the Christian Turks of the Dobruja, pp. 640, 648 3)Mehmet Fuat Köprülü, Gary Leiser, Robert Dankoff; "Early mystics in Turkish literature", New York 2006, pp.53-54 4)Paul R. Brass, “Ethnic groups and the state” p.100 (Bulgarian and Romania mentioned) 5)Brian Glyn Williams, “The Crimean Tatars: the diaspora experience and the forging of a nation”, pp.204 6)John Renard, “Tales of God's Friends: Islamic Hagiography in Translation” pp.136 (Bulgaria and Romania mentioned) 7)Charles King, “The Moldovans: Romania, Russia, and the politics of culture”, pp.210 (Bulgaria and Romania mentioned) 8)H. T. Norris, “Islam in the Balkans: religion and society between Europe and the Arab world” pp.147 (Bulgaria and Romania mentioned). After listing these scholars I think Kostja there is no room for your personal speculations, indications or suggestions. And that thing about the Tatar and southern point of the Muslims was very amusing lol. Your logic states Sari Saltuk has tomb in BabaDag therefore the Seljuk Turks of 12 000 families then settled exclusively in BabaDaga then as you fancy go and put Northern Dobruja to any suitable palce you can find. What source supports this claim? This would have made BabaDag a cosmopolitan city for it time. The question is does Wikipedia policy allow for personal analysis, suggestions and conclusions. Hittit (talk) 08:23, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * This is not the place for disputes. See the talk page for my answer to your assertions. Kostja (talk) 17:10, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Sure and I have provided my answer accompanied with a source and page as usual. Hittit (talk) 17:49, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

What would you like to change about this?
To stop use of suggestive editing and personal research I have requeste the article be protected until dispute is solved. I have also requested 3rd opinion however this has not helped to reach any resolution.

How do you think we can help?
Please review talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Turks_in_Bulgaria#Requested_to_Protect_this_Article "Requested to Protect this Article". If possible review arguments and sources and if possible create a new section with a neutral content of disputed sections supported by given sources to be voted or commented for inclusion in the article. The ultimate aim is to reach a neutral source supported resolution after which protection can be lifted and we can continue working on the article Turks in Bulgaria