Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2010-11-23/Jutte

Where is the dispute?
Jutte gallery section

Who is involved?

 * User:Asperchu
 * User:Samuraiantiqueworld

What is the dispute?
User Asperchu is removing the gallery for the article insisting that a gallery is not used in wiki and should be in commons, I (samuraiantiqueworld) maintain that due to the subject matter a gallery is a good addition to the article.

What would you like to change about this?
I would like a 3rd party view on wether the gallery used in the article is relevant, there might be a misunderstanding of gallery usage by one or both sides.

How do you think we can help?
Is the gallery in question being properly used? Does it help clarify the items being described in the article? Any comments from someone with a little more knowledge would be helpful maybe.

Mediator notes

 * Parties should consider reading WP:IG.
 * I see no evidence that either party has discussed the matter on the article's talk page.

Discussion
I discussed the removal of galleries on the talk page of Asperchu on several occasions and tried to explain the necessity of galleries when it comes to the subject of Japanese and or samurai weapons due to the different styles and types which can be difficult to understand without pictures. Asperchu does not seem to have any knowledge of the historical aspect of the subject and is primarily concerned with the popular use in modern times. My interest is in the actual items themselves and expanding the information that is available on these items. I am having some trouble convincing Asperchu to compromise and he has now removed a gallery on Japanese war fans which I was able to convince him to restore Japanese war fan. Thanks for any help on this problem.Samuraiantiqueworld (talk) 00:23, 29 November 2010 (UTC) (related diffs 1, 2)
 * Thank you for your comment. I hope you don't mind, but I have moved it to the correct section and refactored it slightly to make the links more useful. I am going to post a message on Asperchu's talk page to request that he/she join this discussion. I would like Asperchu's input before taking this any further. -- Scjessey (talk) 14:41, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree thanks for your effort.Samuraiantiqueworld (talk) 21:45, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * There's been no sign of Asperchu for a few days. I advise you to continue working on the article, bringing it to whatever state you see fit, and we will see what transpires when Asperchu decides to return to editing. I will note this comment on the article's talk page, and on Asperchu's talk page as well. -- Scjessey (talk) 19:40, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking the time to attempt to help and for the advice. Samuraiantiqueworld (talk) 02:16, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

These pictures are all ALREADY in Wikipedia Commons, so it's OBVIOUS there should be either a category or an article there, and a link here, and that's all. The pictures in the regular Wikipedia should serve only as an illustration, and I don't remember when I've last even see any gallery (that is outside of ED, or CWCki, and Wikia of course). --Asperchu (talk) 18:08, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
 * There are thousands of articles that make use of galleries to illustrate specific points. In this case, a gallery would seem to be of use in showing the different styles/types - something that would be hard to explain with just prose. It's hard to understand your objection here. -- Scjessey (talk) 18:14, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
 * No, he just dumped there every picture he has uploaded to Commons, without even editing the original captions (the captions that are very badly written, with quote marks instead of internal links for example). I mean, look, he had uploaded them 2 over years ago and didn't even create a category for them since then, and apparently he still refuses to do this now when he suddenly wants them to be on Wikipedia. What. --Asperchu (talk) 18:35, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
 * That doesn't strike me as a fair characterization of events, and Samuraiantiqueworld is not obliged to do anything. There is nothing wrong with the gallery approach, so please try to work toward improving it instead of just removing it. -- Scjessey (talk) 22:03, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I have only been on commons since Jan 2010 so how could I have uploaded pictures over 2 years ago? All the pictures I upload to commons are in categories and they are available for use on wiki articles as needed to help explain certain aspects of the articles that can not easily be understood with out pictures.  Japanese and samurai weapons, armor etc are a very complicated subject with many different variations that can not be fully understood with out the help of images in many cases.


 * Most of the wiki articles I have been working on lack enough references, information and images to be of real help to people trying to gain some knowledge on the subjects I have been editing. The captions I have used on the pictures I have uploaded to commons and subsequently use on wiki articles contain information that helps explain certain details of the images.


 * Someone with no knowledge of the items I have provided pictures of might not fully understand all the information contained in the captions and think it is unnecessary but that is not the case.


 * If you take the article on Jutte for example...there are many different types of jutte and some jutte have parts that other juttes do not, how can you explain the different types of jutte to someone with no previous knowledge of jutte with out pictures as a guide?


 * The same goes for Japanese war fans, there are many different types and materials used, who can describe these items well enough with just words for some one to gain some kind of understanding on the subject? I just do not understand the objections by Asperchu.


 * I am glad to have help finding references that prove or disprove information and I do not mind some one with more editing knowledge then me cleaning up the articles in general but I do object to someone with no knowledge of the subject and no previous history of edits in the subject matter deciding what is the correct way to present information to people and what information is presented.Samuraiantiqueworld (talk) 10:46, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

But THIS-IS-HOW-WE-DO-IT. You make a Commons category and then link to it using the special template. Like everyone else. And in the articles, you use the picture only to illustate the content - with the original captions rewritten for this purpose. (And not too many of them, as to not clog the article.) Now don't make me wrong, it's nice you uploaded the pics and all. OK? --Asperchu (talk) 17:45, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

And btw, kunai needs just any picture, and shuriken a replacement for the commercial-like one. --Asperchu (talk) 17:46, 6 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm closing this case immediately, since Asperchu has been blocked for abusing multiple accounts (and was the dissenting party). -- Scjessey (talk) 15:53, 7 December 2010 (UTC)