Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Allsterecho talk redirects


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the discussion was speedy deleted by Graeme Bartlett  T'Shael,   Lord of the Vulcans  00:18, 29 June 2009 (UTC) Closing instructions

P:ASE and T:ASE
Another two of Allsterecho's redirects to his talk page. Were speedy deleted but recreated. Technicallly it indeed fails wp:csd therefore this MFD for these pointless redirects. -- Garion96 (talk) 08:39, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It doesn't technically fail wp:csd. Csd#r2 says: Redirects from the article namespace to any other namespace except the Category:, Template:, Wikipedia:, Help: and Portal: namespaces. These redirects from P: and T: are not article namespace. These also are not redirects from article namespace to Category:, Template:, Wikipedia:, Help: and Portal: namespaces. Csd#r2 in no way possible applies here. - ALLST✰R ▼ echo wuz here 18:28, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, they do: That's the difference between pseudo-namespaces and proper namespaces with their shortcuts (WP, WT, Image): Pseudo-namespace pages *are* in mainspace, they are called "pseudo" because MediaWiki doesn't recognize them as real namespaces, consequently they can be found by a page search in mainspace. The exemption of redirects to Portal, Template, Help, Category and Wikipedia spaces was written into WP:CSD to cover the pseudo-namespace redirects, like T:DYK.  Amalthea  18:44, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete for God's sake, and it really is getting to be time to ban him for the continuous disruption. → ROUX   ₪  10:32, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete useless cross-namespace redirects, not realistic search terms. Tim Vickers (talk) 17:50, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete users do not need vanity redirects. - T'Shael,  Lord of the Vulcans  18:06, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep AGAIN: Per WP:CROSS: Pseudo-namespace redirects (CAT:, P:, MOS:, etc) may FREELY be used - Per Pseudo-namespace, these are pseudo-namespace - this is NOT ARTICLE SPACE and therefore does not affect anything other than make navigation helpful. I can't believe the ridiculousness in people caring about something that a) has nothing whatsoever to do with them b) has no policy against and c) is not hurting a single soul. I see this as nothing more than harassment and hounding. - ALLST✰R ▼ echo wuz here 18:23, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Could you then please explain how they benefit the project? → ROUX   ₪  18:27, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Aside from making navigation easier for people who think my username is 2 words, or 3 words or can't remember the case-sensitivity of it? Could you explain how benefitting the project has anything to do with these redirects affecting your life or your Wikipedia activities? I mean seriously. And don't say "because I have to keep coming to deletion discussions over them!" because no one makes you do that but you.- ALLST✰R ▼ echo wuz here 18:30, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It is worth noting and . The only inbound links are from your own pages, these pages, and a discussion on Snigbrook's page. So I'm not sure how many users even know about these redirects in order to use them. Stats.grok.se shows a total of 16 views in June for P:ASE, and ten for T:ASE, so it doesn't look as though all that many people are using them. (Today's stats are not up at the site, but they would of course be skewed by the MfD nom). I'm not sure if it is possible to register referrer/clickthrough traffic on internal Wikipedia links. Perhaps someone more technical can let us know, if it is possible, how many actual clicks on those links or (better) how often people are redirected from those links. Presumably if the links are there to make navigation easier for people, you have been sure to give them out to people? As for affecting my life and Wikipedia activity, your ongoing disruption is making you quite prominent--and not in a good way. Here's an idea: why don't you just stop all the silliness? →  ROUX   ₪  18:53, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Like I said above, no one makes you participate in these discussions. If they are disrupting your life and Wikipedia activity, stop participating in them - stop showing up everytime anything having to do with me, comes up. - ALLST✰R ▼ echo wuz here 19:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I notice you haven't actually addressed how these are useful, how often they are used, how often users mis-spell your name, or how you have made people aware that these exist apart from the little box on your user and talk pages. Could you please do so? → ROUX   ₪  20:36, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Umm, I specifially said, Aside from making navigation easier for people who think my username is 2 words, or 3 words or can't remember the case-sensitivity of it? but I guess you just weren't paying attention or your oft-seen confrontational attitude towards me makes anything at all I say, moot in your eyes. How many times a redirect is used does not matter and is of no importance. It's still being used. - ALLST✰R ▼ echo wuz here 20:43, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw you make some claims about the usefulness, yes. What I haven't seen is any proof of any sort of those claims. Could you please address how often these are used (because that is indeed important; redirects that are not plausible misspellings or search terms are deleted all the time, and given that nobody else on Wikipedia uses these--barring the Evula/Gurch examples--they are not plausible redirects), how often users mis-spell your name, and how you have made people aware that they can use these to contact you? Doing so would bolster your assertion that these are useful and necessary. → ROUX   ₪  20:53, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, I asked Allsterecho about these and would have nominated them myself today: I quite generally dispute that pseudonamespace redirects may be "freely used", as that essay suggests, and don't think it reflects current practice. Using them for a whole other namespace target than intended is in any case a misinterpretation of that essay, and personally I'd rather get rid of *all* cross-namespace redirects from mainspace. Allstarecho, you can have someone create WP:Doppelgänger accounts to cover any frequent misspellings of your username. If you think that we should have proper namespace shortcuts for user and user talk space, then feel free to propose them at WP:VPR. Until then, I'd prefer to keep mainspace clean. Amalthea  18:36, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment I have the account creator flag and would be more than willing to create dopplegangers for ASE. - T'Shael,  Lord of the Vulcans  19:00, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I would certainly appreciate that and would like that.. but that still doesn't make these redirects any less acceptable. There's just simply no policy against pseduo-namespace redirects to userspace, only people's "I don't like those!" opinions. - ALLST✰R ▼ echo wuz here 19:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, Amalthea, after you asked Allstarecho about these (with no reply that I can see) they were speedied. ASE then recreated them. This follows within days of having WP:ASE and WP:ASTAR deleted. The message doesn't seem to be sinking in. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 19:45, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I knew one of my arch wiki-stalkers would eventually show up. Nice to see you again DC. - ALLST✰R ▼ echo wuz here 20:27, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Is anything DC said inaccurate? Your other redirects were deleted, and then you pretty much immediately created these ones. Is there a good explanation for that? → ROUX   ₪  20:36, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe that my summary above was correct, but after looking through Allstarecho's contributions, I see that it was incomplete. There was also the speedied pseudonamespace redirect P:ASTART. Note that at the same time Allstarecho was creating his own cross-namespace redirects, he was also nominating other editor's redirects for deletion. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 21:01, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No one was questioning whether your summary was correct or not, only pointing out how you're lately "johnny on the spot" for anything that relates to me - or in otherwords, your stalking. However, this latest one is not. An admin is welcome to look at the timeline of the creations and my nomination of that redirect for deletion. Be sure you know the whole story before making accusations. I accepted that WP: redirects were unacceptable. That redirect I nommed was a WP: redirect. These 2 redirects, and the other you mentioned, are not WP: redirects but psedo-namespace redirects via Portal (P:) of which there's no policy against. Thanks. - ALLST✰R ▼ echo wuz here 21:06, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm really not sure what you think I'm accusing you of, but I'd appreciate it if you could stop making accusations that I am "stalking" you. I've already asked you to bring it up at an appropriate forum if you actually believe I have some malicious intent toward you. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 21:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You're not sure indeed. - ALLST✰R ▼ echo wuz here 21:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The reply was at, but I wasn't online (much) until now so I held back. I noticed the speedies, but was unaware of the previous MfDs. I agree that trying to circumvent those results by abusing pseudo-namespaces instead is highly questionable. Amalthea  19:56, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:CSD says that all redirects from mainspace to user (talk) space may be speedily deleted. Pseudo-namespaces aren't namespaces, and again, the exemption in WP:CSD was written in to legitimize the existing pseudo-namespace redirects. So much for written-down policy and a wikilawyering reasoning, but of course policy reflects consensus, and from this MfD (that should be a RfD) and similar ones consensus seems clear. Amalthea  19:56, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete as per earlier redirects made by Allstarecho. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 19:45, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Speedy deleted - as well as cross name space redirect, this is a recreation of deleted content after the previous MfD. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:20, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.