Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:Hind Al Eryani

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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was:  Delete. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 09:55, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Draft:Hind Al Eryani


WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY draft; declined AFC in August 2016; latest editor was duped by the subject herself and has now withdrawn support and requested speedy deletion/returned the article to draft namespace. Based on, unlikely to meet article criteria. Closeapple (talk) 16:09, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Delete per nominator and per the PROD message. I procedurally declined PROD after the article was moved to draft space, but the PROD message can be found in the edit history. Safiel (talk) 18:21, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Request for information. Can you please explained why the latest editor was duped and the reason of moving the page to draft ? Adogake (talk) 18:03, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
 * In the, User:Aden65 said: "When drafting this article I later discovered the information I was being told was by the subject themself(Hind Aleryani), and when post checking her notability it seemed she exaggerated, as there are only two articles, and most of the campaigns listed in the article cannot be verified, particularly the Khat ban which has not been implemented in Yemen nor is she credited for exposing the journalist as this was first highlighted by Aljazeera staff. She has a wikipage on the Arabic version as reviewing her media content is all in Arabic, and now see no point for this article (Please note: The Arabic version is simply a translation of what is written, ad verbatim, on the subject's website). The original draft was tagged with a notability warning. I was approached to edit this article to resolve the notability issue. I reviewed the sources given, argued her case that she was notable and redrafted the article, but have subsequently discovered that most of the information was ancedotal at best. I feel this article does not satisfy the notability condition and will be construed as mere self-promotion given the strength of the sources - later checked, most do not substaniate the subject's claims and appear to be written by close associates or merely mention her name in passing." It was moved from draft to main namespace by Aden65, and then soon moved back to draft by Aden65 again. --Closeapple (talk) 18:11, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

I suggest improvement instead of deletion

I personally believe that this article seems well-written with valid references and is a very useful resource about a prominent Yemeni female activist. Wikipedia is in severe shortage of useful entries on Yemeni personalities, and in particular women.

So I think instead of deleting the page, the author should point out in this discussion any ways to improve it and fix any vulnerabilities.

Walid Wsaqaf (talk) 10:13, 15 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Another user (Aden65) attempted to improve this, but it turned out that the information was anecdotal and was fed by Hind Aleryani herself. It's an autobiography, and an anonymous IP tried to change it, then Aden65 tried to improve it, and yet we are still here. --Closeapple (talk) 18:19, 15 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Closeapple (talk) 18:26, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Closeapple (talk) 18:26, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This debate has been included in the list of Yemen-related deletion discussions. Closeapple (talk) 18:26, 15 January 2017 (UTC)


 * The original article was moved to draft by another user citing notability issues. Hind Aleryani sent a tweet message asking for help in redrafting the article. I removed peacock terms, and was sent links via direct message by a follower, but then I started receiving emails by Hind Aleryani which raised my suspicions, so I checked the links again and none of them confirm in definite terms what she claims. I was sent messages via Twitter by an individual named Hussain claiming to be a journalist and that there was no Khat ban in place. I phoned the Yemeni embassy in London (020 7584 6607) and they confirmed there was no such thing as a "No Khat Day" and said they had never heard of a "Don't Return For Peace Campaign" or Hind Aleryani. This coupled with the fact that her links and information were sent by one of her followers and then she emailed me directly with information compromises the article's neutrality. Notwithstanding the self-promotion problem, there isn't sufficient notability for a page to be created on this subject. There is a list of prominent female Yemeni activists at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Yemeni_women's_rights_activists. All of them are part of a recognised rights group and government departments, with notable success and prominence. You can submit a new Bio on subject, but I believe the Bio I have written violates Wikipedia's self-promotion and neutrality rule. Please also discuss with User:Closeapple — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aden65 (talk • contribs) 2017-01-15 20:05:35 (UTC)


 * Agreed with Wsaqaf, an improvement sounds better than a deletion. It looks like the April 2012 campaign got acknowledgement and support from the Ministries of Information and Education - My understanding is that Hind is raising awareness and open a national dialog around the negative effects of Khat before the coup happened rather that promoting a national all-year-long ban. Adokage (talk) 05:10, 16 January 2017 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adogake (talk • contribs)


 * Article cited above by User:Adogake in reference number 1 highlights some of the problems I encountered with sources. Firstly, the date on the web page at the top is 16th January 2017, giving the impression that the this a recent article and an ongoing event. Reading the actual article (in Arabic) clearly states that some Yemeni activists are calling for a "No Khat Day" to begin on 12th April 2012. The actual content is almost 5 years old. Secondly, this is a very brief article and only states that Yemeni activists, including Hind Aleryani, are requesting Khat be banned from institutions, and does not say whether this was successful or not. Thirdly, as mentioned previously, having spoke to the Yemeni embassy a "No Khat Day" does not exist nor has Khat been banned in any institution. The campaign is only ever mentioned briefly in articles dating back 5 years ago. For all intents and purposes this campaign ended in 2012. I would also argue that this isn't distinguising enough to warrant a wikipedia entry as prior to 2012 and following 2012 there have been numerous calls to ban Khat by other Yemenis. In fact, others have been more successful. For example, local authorities banned Khat on weekdays at the behest of tribal chiefs in some parts of Yemen .Finally, all sources are similar in style - brief and/or cursory with little, if any, credible information to back her claims. Furthermore, this article cannot be improved if it's initial creation was predicated on unreliable information given to me by Hind Aleryani. I believe the only improvement is deletion and waiting for a third party independent of Hind Aleryani to write about her, as is the norm with Bios. Anything else, damages Wikipedia's credibility.

I do agree with the Yemeni activist known as Walid Al-saqqaf in what he wrote and also with Mrs. Dima Al-Khatib, as everyone knows how Khat campaigns caused uproar inside and outside Yemen resulting of a constitutional clause in the draft of new Yemen Constitution for the first time in the history of Yemen" http://www.constitutionnet.org/files/yemen-draft_constitution-15jan2015-_english.pdf". Were it not for the fact that war begun, those campaigns would have continue their mission. despite that, there is still friends without Khat club which takes place in Al- Hudaydah city, where its members meet every month to read a book. In addition to that, a decision by the Minister of the Interior to banned khat in police stations," http://www.alquds.co.uk/?p=146421 " ,was made during the campaign, not to forget that the essential goal of the campaigns was launching a new law as a strategy involves many steps including this decision. which indeed happened when government responded positively. Mrs. Hind Al-Eryani visited the national dialog conference," http://www.ndc.ye/ar-news.aspx?id=41 ", in Yemen, that time law was within the national dialogue outputs and added to the Yemeni Constitution which counts as a huge step toward achieving the campaigns goals. Therefore, I am wondered and astonished in what is written in the discussion that the government of Yemen did not recognize the campaigns. Not to mention that campaigns are facing many attacks against them supported by many tribes supporting Khat. Here is a book named " https://www.amazon.com/Politics-Qat-Ruling-Yemen-Jemen-Studien/dp/3895009105" took a part of these campaigns and how Khat is supported by these tribes, mentioning the name of Mrs. Hind Al-Eryani. Another article was written in Huff Post Arabi recalls how a government collapsed due to a decision made by the prime minister to quit chewing Khat in government offices.

finally I humbly hope of Wikipedia to take this into account to understand the reason of the attacks on the campaigns against Khat and its leader, Mrs. Hind Al-Eryani. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hussein Al-Jadadi (talk • contribs) 23:12, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

-- Aden65 says:

My argument for deletion has not been addressed by Hussein Al-Jadadi. I wrote the entirety of the Wikipedia entry on Hind Aleryani. I wrote the wiki entry after a request from a Twitter user, who I later discovered was Hind Aleryani herself (She emailed me with links and content to write). This wiki Bio should be deleted and if Hind Aleryani is notable enough another entry will be created by an independent third party in due course. I also believe the individuals who are against deletion are her Twitter followers as she has emailed me directly asking me why I deleted the article, and as she herself requested I write her bio, it follows that she has very likely made a similar request from her followers. This is further evidence of self-promotion. As I noted earlier, a successful Khat ban was carried out by other campaigners AFTER civil war erupted and was covered by the BBC (see: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-36306550). Her campaign, however, was unsuccessful and hardly merits a wikipedia page. Please also see Tawakul Karaman, an example of a female Yemeni activist who achieved recognition and considerable notability, and as a result of such notability a Wikipedia page was created independently and without, quite frankly, recourse to underhanded tactics. In short, page should be deleted as Hind Aleryani requested page, gave me content to write and then revealed who she was when sending me links to amend after page was sent to mainspace.

---

It is my pleasure to reply to each and every point you mentioned above.

Firstly, you claimed not knowing Mrs. Hind and that someone messaged you asking you to write about her without known that she was her. Well here is my question, how could she get your personal email among all her followers? How could both of you keep messaging each other if you do not know one another? It really does not make any scenes. Apparently, you have forgotten the day you started messaging her after seeing her post in twitter; on Dec the 5th, 2016 offering your help to be her Wikipedia editor, as shown in below links. " http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=11uf0jp&s=9", " http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=neb4o7&s=9 ".

Secondly, as explained by the Yemeni activist Mr. Waled AlSaqqaf at the top of this discussion, and as shown from the date of this draft that it has been written before even you edit or add to its contents. Which prove that someone else is trying to write about her, and he/she already did, but the article seems to be lacking references and Hind was looking for references and wrote on her front page on Twitter, "https://twitter.com/hindaleryani/status/805440021985718272".

Third: If you see that she is not worthy writing about how were you able to write all details that we see now in front of us on the page? And how we see references from well-known global sites, books and speaking at the TEDx and the addition of a constitutional text of the result of her campaigns also the website of the national dialogue conference talking about her visit!

There is something mysterious behind the anointed and the intention of you seeking deletion of this page, but surly Wikipedia team should evaluate this issue as per the statement of Mr. Waled alsaqqaf, the well-known activist in Yemen and Mrs. Dima Alkhatib, the Managing Director at AJ+ as both of them a worldwide internationally well-known. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hussein Al-Jadadi (talk • contribs) 19:45, 21 January 2017 (UTC) - Aden65 says:

The screenshots submitted by Hussein Al-Jadadi supports my argument for deletion. Hind Aleryani was in contact with me throughout the editorial process. Initial contact was through one of her followers in which I expressed interest in cleaning up references only. When I examined the original draft it was a word for word copy of what is found on Hind's website (http://hindaleryani.com/about-hind/) and would be declined because it could be construed as self-promotion. I advised her it would need a complete write up and told her I was having difficulty trying to locate who had written the original draft (as shown in the screenshots above). I then started to receive emails containing links and content to write. I assumed this was one of her followers and/or people from the Aleryani clan who had reliable information about her, but then later the Name of the email sender changed from Salim Aleryani to Hind Aleryani but the actual email address was the same. I believe she found my email address from my Twitter profile. However, by the time I had discovered this the draft had been sent to namespace. I asked her if she was happy with this and that it may be flagged as self-promotion and told her I should withdraw my submissions (that part is omitted from the screenshots).

I then questioned the validity of her claims as I was unhappy with how she had mislead me by feeding me information under another name. I found that most of the references were flimsy at best. During my research I discovered there was no mention of her name in the New York Times article about the Shame on Reuters article as she claims (https://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/reuters-reporter-also-works-for-yemens-president/?_r=0) nor on the Shame on Reuters facebook page. In fact, Hind Aleryani's own Twitter feed suggests she merely added a hashtag to an ongoing problem already being addressed by others and attributed the success to herself:

https://twitter.com/HindAleryani/status/161392495316578305

To conclude, Hussein's screenshots above show Hind was in contact with me and compromised the articles neutrality when she sent me content under a different name instead of just the links I needed (links that were later proven to be dubious). Hussein mentions that Dima Al-Khatib and Waled Alsaqqaf have recognised Hind, and I would recommend that this article be deleted and they write an article about her (but this might not satisfy self-promotion conditions as they are associates). I also would like to clarify that I have no animosity towards Hind, but merely wish to delete this article as it was basically dictated to me by Hind and don't want the first article I ever wrote on Wikipedia to be a sham, particularly as I am planning to clean up some pages on Yemeni artists in the future. This page should be deleted as not only does it not satisfy the notability criteria, has claims that cannot be verified, but it is self-promoting and the screenshots submitted by Hussein alone should warrant deletion. I also now agree with the more experienced Wikipedia Moderator who placed a notability tag on the first draft submitted.

Hussein Al-Jadadi says: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hussein Al-Jadadi (talk • contribs) 22:20, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

I will answer your questions despite the fact that you know the answers.

I got in touch with Hind In order to recheck all of your e-mails which you have exchanged between both of you, which I already attached in my previous email, which proves that you were the first to contact her offering your assistance to edit the article which originally been written before by someone else.

The campaign named #ShameOnReuters; exist in Hind tweets as well as her Facebook page. For more clarification, other activists who participated in the campaign will write about it, despite the hashtag is well known to all.

In the article there is a link for Hind interview on France 21 channel as owner and leader of the campaign.

A well-known journalist in Le Monde press wrote about the campaign and about Hind in particular, as she stated that after this campaign she expects that the name of Hind will be repeated more, which really happened after her campaign against Khat, which led to a new constitutional text in the constitution draft and recently peace campaign.

Finally, we do not know who you are, also you are not recognized personality for Hind to contact you.

Here we are having statements of well-known figures globally, therefore, l wish of Wikipedia to stop this controversy personal insults toward a respective, proud Yemeni women as Mrs. Hind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hussein Al-Jadadi (talk • contribs) 22:11, 22 January 2017 (UTC)



Comments By Aden65:

1. As evidenced by statements above Hind Aleryani exchanged emails with me and supplied me with content to write about her using an alias.

2. No personal insults have been made against Hind Aleryani.

3. The Reuters campaign was started by others. There is no evidence Hind was responsible for the campaign - no mention of her in NY Times article nor the facebook page she gave as references.

4. All references given by Hind Aleryani are anecdotal and do not confirm what she claims, nor is she mentioned as the reason for a clause in the constitution anywhere.

5. Statements above show Hind Aleryani is still in contact with others to help her submit Bio (Clear proof of Self-promotion)

6. The original Bio draft was a copy of what is written on her website. Extensive revisions were not only made by myself, but commplete overhaul and rewrite (based on information given to me directly by Hind Aleryani). This can be confirmed by checking the Bio's history.

7. Self-promotion, including an author writing about themselves coupled with the evidence supplied above of Hind directly giving information and what to write about her under an alias and then further colloboraton between her and others above to circumvent fair discussion and avoid deletion violates Wikipedia policy and renders any dicussion skewed. I believe this discussion has runs its course and should be closed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aden65 (talk • contribs) 2017-01-22 19:20 UTC (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.