Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Template:User Islas Malvinas work group

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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was  delete. — ξ xplicit  22:02, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Template:User Islas Malvinas work group


I nominated this for deletion as a Speedy. It is a substantial duplicate of the user box for the Falkland Islands Working Group. Stated reason for creation is WP:POINT, as the originator objects to the Falkland Islands Flag used on the existing template. Rather than as I have suggested taking his concerns to the talk page of the project he has insisted on creating this template and removing the Speedy deletion tag. Bringing it here for a wider community discussion. Wee Curry Monster talk 10:36, 20 March 2012 (UTC) Like [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:User_Falkland_Islands_work_group&diff=482946962&oldid=368005178 this] ? Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:56, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Keep. I can see nothing wrong with this. The working group must of course be politically neutral and open to adherents both of the pro-British and the pro-Argentinian POV. If the use of either flag on a user page can be perceived as a political statement, there's nothing wrong with having alternative versions of it whose symbolism is compatible with the views of the user who hosts them. The group as a whole doesn't "own" that userbox and there are no grounds for any exclusivity of representation. WP:POINT presupposes that there is disruption, but the only disruption I can see here is the nominator revert-warring over his deletion tag. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:59, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I really resent that remark, I have not been disruptive, I've reverted twice and then opened it up for wider community discussion. It appears to me that you are you still harbouring a grudge over your RFC/U as this is the second time you have been unjustified in accusing me of disruptive behaviour.  Its clear from Chiton's comments he created it because he doesn't like the existing template, rather than taking it to the group to discuss his concerns he has created an unnecessary duplicate.  The correct process to follow would have been to take it to the talk page of the project.  Wee Curry Monster talk 11:33, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Can the nom indicate, preferrably with Diffs, why he thinks this UBX rises to be at odds with WP:POINT? Achowat (talk)
 * ,, Three times he's reverted me insisting its legitimate because he doesn't like the flag on the existing template. He's created one with the Flag of Tierra del Fuego which is the flag of the province which Argentina claims is the administration of the islands.  Personally I don't care what is on the group template but creating one for silly POV reasons instead of talking about his concerns with other editors is simply WP:POINT.  Wee Curry Monster talk 14:55, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems you misunderstand the point of WP:POINT (if you'll pardon a pun). Sure the UBX is politically motivated, but no disruption is caused by that. Keep, as I would argue for multiple UBXen with different flags as acceptable for an Irish WikiProject or any other situation where chosing one flag or the other would be politically divisive. Achowat (talk) 14:59, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * No I do understand it, you plainly don't. If you think there is a problem you go to the talk page and discuss it.  You don't make a WP:POINT by creating a duplicate.  Thats being decidely WP:POINTy  For instance now I feel like creating a user box with a giant flag bigger than this one to make such a point but I probably won't.  Though a member of that group I don't display the current user box because of the national symbol displayed.  But the same user has called me a "hardcore falklander" and a "British Agent" on my talk page . Wee Curry Monster talk 16:15, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I admit I'm not as tuned-in to the Falkland issues as you clearly are. Would a compromise flag or image be possible? Is there a neutral flag in this discussion? Would a map be useful (like WP:IE uses?)? It seems to me that there are two competing politically-charged flags for the UBX and you're asking for the alternate to be deleted, and your preferred version kept, only because it's older. Achowat (talk) 16:22, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I again draw your attention to the fact I don't display the current user box because it displays a national symbol and my preferred option is to use a neutral symbol. I am most definitely NOT arguing for my preferred version to be kept, because it is NOT my preferred version.  However, my position is rather undermined if all people do is create duplicates with alternate national symbols is it not?  I have added emphasis to make the point if you'll pardon the pun.  Wee Curry Monster talk 16:50, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * There has been no discussion at either of the Template Talks, and it seems having a discussion there would be a better course of action. Of course, if the other editor refuses to engage in a rational discussion there, it would be worthwhile to escalate the issue, but as it stands it seems like another political/flag dispute that is being waged on Wikipedia (I'm, again, wholly unfamiliar with the issue so I won't comment on who is waging what or who is right or wrong). Maybe even a more centralized local discussion at WP:FALKLAND might make sense, but as it stands I think this is wading a little too close to a content dispute for a delete-close to result in anything but more headaches, all around. Achowat (talk) 17:08, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That was my point, he's refused to take this to talk. As I don't really care, I could just go down with moral high ground of WP:DGAF and leave others to their dick waving displays of national symbols.  Wee Curry Monster talk 17:22, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Wait, you've attempted to discuss this with the User? There's nothing in the WikiProject Task Force's talk and the talks of both relevant templates are redlinked. Achowat (talk) 17:25, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I've asked him twice to help me change the existing template. At this point sod it, leave them to it, nationalism is a pox on wikipedia.  Wee Curry Monster talk 17:43, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * It seems based on your comments here and hir edit summaries that a simple Map may be the best solution. I would again implore you (both of you) to discuss the issue on a Talk Page, so other interested editors can weigh in. Achowat (talk) 17:49, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I would keep both flag-versions of the template until a unified "map-picture template" (as Achowat suggested) is in place to replace both. Discussion about this should be done in the page of the work group with invitation to Justin, Narson, Langus, Marshal and all other users usually involved in Falkland issues. Chiton magnificus (talk) 18:42, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * So, would that solution be agreeable to both sides? Closing this MFD as "no consensus" and opening up a discussion at the Task Force talk about a politically neutral UBX? Achowat (talk) 18:47, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That map has the added benefit of looking like a cool dragon! Seriously though, does that solution work for all y'all? Achowat (talk) 19:01, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Have you come across ?
 * I have no objections to that per se, in fact I welcome the removal of nationals symbols, but I can see some objecting as blue is the national colour of Argentina. Green would be better.  (Always though East Falkland resembled a Bulldog mind.)  Wee Curry Monster talk 19:03, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Isn't blue also, by far, the most distinctive color of the flag of the British Falklands? Achowat (talk) 19:07, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The box was blueish from the start too. And somebody had conveniently made this small gif map in box size. There was another file in a more distinctly "Argentinian" light blue, but this one struck me as better. Of course, if anybody wants to make a version in yet a different color ... Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:11, 20 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I've tweaked it to show what I meant., is that better? Wee Curry Monster talk 19:27, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Given the agreement here, can we now delete this? Wee Curry Monster talk 20:01, 22 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Since the two templates are now more or less identical, one can be redirected to the other or deleted. My strongest preference is deletion of the "Islas Malvinas" variant. Either way, this discussion should probably be wrapped up.  Super Mario  Man  01:25, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Delete per SuperMarioMan --Dweller (talk) 15:35, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.