Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Поль Крол Злой Диктатор/Userboxes/Antitrotskyist

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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was:  speedy delete.  —&#8288;Scotty Wong &#8288;— 21:32, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

User:Поль Крол Злой Диктатор/Userboxes/Antitrotskyist

 * – (View MfD) &#8203;
 * DMySon (talk) 05:05, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Trotsky was murdered with an ice axe, which is what’s depicted in this userbox. Though there’s nothing offensive about the text, an image is worth a thousand words— even if this happened ages ago it’s still basically endorsing the assassination of political enemies. Dronebogus (talk) 21:58, 11 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Delete per nomination. Its inexcusable and unacceptable to create userboxes with the intention to condone murder of people, regardless of the fact when the murder in question happened. —Sundostund (talk) 22:20, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete - I normally avoid userbox deletion debates, but this is a special case, because, as the nominator notes, it is endorsing, if not the assassination of political enemies in general, one historical assassination. Wikipedia has No Nazis largely because the Nazis were political murderers, and all political murder must be condemned.  Robert McClenon (talk) 22:24, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment I made an attempt to salvage this userbox. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:54, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment Your attempt to salvage this userbox seems quite legitimate to me, but the fact remains that, even if modified as you proposed, the history of this userbox will still contain something highly unacceptable (its original version). I still think its necessary to expunge it through deletion. My advice to you would be to create a completely new Antitrotskyist userbox, as you proposed it here, while this one should remain a subject for deletion. —Sundostund (talk) 16:18, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah I see that as an issue, I was just trying to show that you can make something acceptable out of the situation. I really have no opinion on Trotskyism here. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:23, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I don’t either. But I think the revisions need deletion Dronebogus (talk) 21:26, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * The ones condoning murder I mean Dronebogus (talk) 21:26, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, DMySon (talk) 05:05, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete The salvage attempt is appreciated, but I agree with Sundostund that the original was so egregiously unacceptable that it'd be better to make a new one for people who disagree with the ideology than to salvage one that originally explicitly endorsed homicide. Userboxes are cheap to make and cheap to delete, after all.  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 18:56, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep as it doesn't explicitly endorse/condone political assassination. I'd agree that's an interpretation of it but it doesn't say that on the tin. ToeSchmoker (talk) 21:20, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Keep. The photo in the userbox is of Trotsky in 1924; I don't see how that image is disruptive or expresses a murderous message. An infobox containing this user opposes communism with a picture of Karl Marx would not be so inflammatory or disruptive as to warrant deletion. Likewise, a userbox that contains an image of Trotsky and expresses a disapproval of the ideology doesn't violate WP:UBX. — Mhawk10 (talk) 03:55, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * It was altered. The deletion request has been disrupted by this change so I’m reverting even though it’s in good faith. Dronebogus (talk) 04:19, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your revert, its the only logical way to avoid confusion here. I think you may want to reconsider your vote, now when you can see the userbox in its original state, as its creator envisioned it. —Sundostund (talk) 21:12, 13 April 2022 (UTC)
 * From what I'm seeing, a user attempted to modify the userbox so that it would be compliant with WP:UBX, which was subsequently reverted by the nominator arguing that it hurt deletion arguments. That isn't a good reason for reverting an edit; in almost any other deletion discussion, destroying all attempts to improve the entity nominated for deletion would not be seen as productive. While the original version of the userbox clearly violates the guideline, the current version does not. That a previous version of a page was a violation of WP:UBX is not a valid deletion reason. If I wanted to delete a page because of this edit, even though the current version of that anti-anarchist userbox is fine, then my nomination would be moot. The same applies here. — Mhawk10 (talk) 01:23, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I'd agree that the example you linked to is analogous; I think there's a meaningful difference between pages that happen to have a bad revision and pages that were created for the wrong reasons. Difference between an article that was vandalized once and an article that was made as an attack page. Userboxes in particular tend to be created with a specific message and purpose in mind, so while some can be salvaged, the most extreme ones are better off being deleted than turned into loosely related inoffensive ones.  Vanilla  Wizard  💙 19:39, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Strong Delete This picture encourages murder. Illegal under the first amendment, illegal under wikipedia. User:Mr Reading Turtle
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.