Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Allstarecho/fol


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was Withdrawn: deleted voluntarily by creator (non-admin closure) --Rrburke(talk) 11:51, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

User:Allstarecho/fol
I'm requesting per WP:USERPAGE and WP:USERPAGE that this subpage -- a banner reading "Fighting online is like being in the Special Olympics. You might win, but you're still retarded" (with links to the articles Special Olympics World Games and Mental retardation) -- be deleted as material "which is likely to give widespread offense".

I've made three requests to the editor to remove this subpage, which is transcluded into both his userpage and user talk page, because it is insensitive and offensive, invoking people with mental and developmental disabilities in a belittling and derisive way as a vehicle for purported "humor."

The editor has declined to remove the banner, claiming it is not offensive in that it does not "target" anyone, and that it is funny. My response is that this is precisely what's objectionable about it: its "humor" rests on the assumption that there is something inherently funny about someone with a mental or developmental disability that would make being compared to someone who has such a disability "funny".

Should you harbor any doubts that the banner is indeed offensive, consider what reactions might follow if instead of "you're still retarded" this were a joke whose punchline were "you're still black" or "still Jewish" or "still gay". Moreover, the archaism "retarded" is offensive on its face, having, like the words "colored" and "Negro," acquired over time the character of a slur. --Rrburke(talk) 00:25, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep You conveniently left out that it also links to Wikipedia:Civility. Further, your argument of being black or being Jewish or being gay wouldn't be in context with the display.. what does any of those have to do with fighting online or the Special Olympics? Nothing. But being retarded does. Further, people should keep in mind that the terms "retarded", "slow" and "half-wit" also redirect to Mental retardation. Apparently, with 3 redirects to the same article, someone sees a correlation besides myself. For those interested, here is the piece Rrburke has an issue with:
 * At Rrburke's first request, I changed "retarded" to "slow". I then found that "slow" still went to "Mental retardation". After pondering the issue further ever since Rrburke's request for me to take it down, I realized that it would be morally reprehensible to myself for me to succumb to such a ridiculous secondary view of my display. In fact, I'm offended that I was even asked for it to be taken down. I'm offended that people don't have a sense of humor on WP, that it seems like nerds with no sense of reality pecking away at keyboards across WP. My display links to articles on WP and quite frankly, anyone fighting online makes me wonder what their mental infarction is... and now I find myself fighting online for a principle, not for the display itself. Coincidence? Maybe. --  ALLSTAR    ECHO  01:41, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * At Rrburke's first request, I changed "retarded" to "slow". I then found that "slow" still went to "Mental retardation". After pondering the issue further ever since Rrburke's request for me to take it down, I realized that it would be morally reprehensible to myself for me to succumb to such a ridiculous secondary view of my display. In fact, I'm offended that I was even asked for it to be taken down. I'm offended that people don't have a sense of humor on WP, that it seems like nerds with no sense of reality pecking away at keyboards across WP. My display links to articles on WP and quite frankly, anyone fighting online makes me wonder what their mental infarction is... and now I find myself fighting online for a principle, not for the display itself. Coincidence? Maybe. --  ALLSTAR    ECHO  01:41, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Strong Delete American Heritage defines "Retarded" as "Often Offensive Affected with mental retardation." In this context, it is used as a pejorative to belittle vandals at the expense of mentally handicapped people. If not offensive, than it is at minimum insensitive.  WP:CIVIL even states "Wikipedians define incivility roughly as personally targeted behavior that causes an atmosphere of greater conflict and stress."  I fail to see how this userbox promotes civility at all.  For example, your above reply to take down the userbox resulted in a boarder-line personal attack by cleverly implying the nominator is mentally handicapped.  I now expect to be belittled myself.  There is no need for this.--Old Hoss 02:21, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - extraordinarily offensive and clearly intended to be insulting/pejorative. Also has no encyclopedic use, and is completely uncivil. --Cheeser1 02:26, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment. I have a bit of COI as I'm slow, ha! just kidding!, actually I've been in near communication with this editor on a regular basis and have worked with Allstarecho on several projects/articles. I will state that I doubt any offense was intended but that I agree the use of the word retarded and the implications of such is widely considered offensive so would recommend Allstarecho apply to the task the same outstanding energy brought to other challenges and find another witty way to convey the sentiment that civility is important. Culturally the word can be seen as somewhat harmless just slurs against women, people of color and the many slurs against LGBT people but that doesn't mean they don't cause real pain and potential can lead to intolerance, dehumanization and in turn, even violence as we have seen in other communities. Even though retarded can be seen for decent and reputable uses its pain is all too real for those living with mental challenges and the many people in their lives that are impacted by the same. Part of our job here is to educate and enlighten and to me this could be seen as a barrier and can add to a climate that flies in the face of cooperation and consensus. Change it to something even better and funnier that loses the cringe factor and let's get on with the work. Benjiboi 02:48, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment I would argue that no matter what is substituted, it still is going to be used in a demeaning and insulting manner at the expense of some group of people (which is different than "having a sense of humor"; the Cheese Shop sketch is humor). Rather than insulting editors (even if they are true vandals), let's praise the good ones instead.  Why all the hate?--Old Hoss 03:13, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment. At the base of most (all?) humor is pain, usually to others. But humor can be used in many ways. I didn't suggest retard be replaced with some other group insult but believe an entirely new phrase teaching the same concept that civility is important should be utilized. Benjiboi 03:56, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Close To compliment the spirit of the display I made, that being that I refuse to fight online especially over something so petty, I have since deleted it so you can close this ridiculousness because it's gone anyway. Thank you. --  ALLSTAR    ECHO  04:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.