Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Antigrandiose/userbox/che

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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was: keep. Ə XPLICIT 02:06, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

User:Antigrandiose/userbox/che

 * – (View MfD)

Per WP:UBCR, Wikipedia is not an appropriate place for propaganda, advocacy, or recruitment of any kind, commercial, political, religious, or otherwise, opinion pieces on current affairs or politics, self-promotion, or advertising. Through the 100 million figure, this userbox references the controversial conclusions of The Black Book of Communism, which equates Nazism with Communism, and in my view, is unnecessarily divisive, which is another forbidden criterion of UBCR. Etzedek24 (I'll talk at ya) (Check my track record) 02:01, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep. It also references historical events. We may not like them, but they still happened. - The Bushranger One ping only 03:15, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not debating the inclusion of the MKUCR article, but the 100 million dead is a matter of some significant controversy, and is a direct tell to that even if it's not directly linked. Etzedek24 (I'll talk at ya) (Check my track record) 03:19, 2 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete if not fixed. This is a clumsy presentation of real information, not consistent with the encyclopedia.  I could guess that it relates to the following: https://www.wsj.com/articles/100-years-of-communismand-100-million-dead-1510011810  However, information must be sourced, and the userbox does not do this.  The main purpose of a userbox is to reveal something about the user.  This userbox does that, but in also making an undefined serious allegation, it goes to far in clumsiness.  The following would be acceptable "Communism is responsible for the deaths of many people".  If you want to give a number, it needs to be sourced.  The tailing phrase "and all I got was this lousy userbox" is not an issue.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:35, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think "anti-communist propaganda" is the decisive point, "propaganda" is a matter of opinion, the problem is "an unsourced rant including controversial facts or figures".  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:18, 3 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep as already in userspace. This is frankly dumb -- but userspace is the correct place for most dumb userboxes. If it were, say, a personal attack on people with communist ideologies, that would suggest deletion. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 07:29, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
 * It's subject to the guideline I linked in the nomination, WP:UBCR, so the fact that it's in userspace doesn't mean it can't be deleted. I discovered it, I might note, on the userpage of a user that was blocked indefinitely for a litany of POV and other issues. Etzedek24 (I'll talk at ya) (Check my track record) 20:28, 2 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Delete this is anti-communist propaganda, which is against policy. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:25, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep while the exact number of people who died under communism is certainly under scholarly debate, I see no reason why this user box is against policy. It's no more inflammatory or propagandistic than some of the other political userboxes I've seen. Dr. Swag Lord (talk) 03:06, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * , that sounds more like a reason to delete those other user boxes than a reason to keep this one. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:10, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * This may not be a popular view, but I find almost all political userboxes quite disruptive. Even the basic "this user is a conservative" or "this user is a liberal" ones. That being said, I don't think we should be deleting specific userboxes just because we don't like the specific message of said userbox. Dr. Swag Lord (talk) 03:28, 3 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree, but the difference here is the userbox is asserting a figure that is challenged and unsourced. User's asserting own opinions are great, user's asserting their own facts is not.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:18, 4 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Do we need to include citations in userboxes? I never knew that. I don't really see how users are "asserting their own facts" given that the 100 million figure comes from a rather famous book. If you dispute that figure, that's fine. I'm sure many people dispute that figure--however, many people accept it as well. Dr. Swag Lord (talk) 07:33, 4 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Keep A statement expressing an opinion on one side of a scholarly debate (in this case the amount of people killed by communism) is not, in my view, propaganda.  Zoozaz1   talk   04:06, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep Giving your opinion on "how many people did communism kill?" is acceptable. We allow anti-fascist userboxes, just as we allow anti-communist userboxes (unless you oppose all political userboxes, but that's another discussion). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arccosecant (talk • contribs) 20:18, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.