Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Barts1a/discussion1

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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was move to User:Piotrus/discussion1. This was suggested by several contributors late in the debate, Barts1a has no objection, and it seems a solution which will satisfy all parties. JohnCD (talk) 12:11, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

User:Barts1a/discussion1
As a result of an opposition to my speedy deletion per WP:CSD on my talk page here. I have no opinion here as to whether or not it should be kept or deleted. –MuZemike 04:15, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete As person who put the template for deletion there in the first place Barts1a (talk) 13:33, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep, with no prejudice to blanking. I have no problem with this page being blanked, it is in Bart's userspace and he has the right to censor/blank comments he dislikes. I do however have a problem with comments I made being deleted. I may want to revisit them for some purpose in the future (as unlikely as it is), and they are my comments that should be at the very least accessible to me through my contributions. I would appreciate examples on whether in the past we have been deleting (or not) such pages (talk / discussion pages, essentially). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 04:23, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, your comments have not (and will not) be deleted. They are still visible in Archive 1 of my talk page Barts1a (talk) 04:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Bart, my problem is that those comments are no longer easily findable for me, because you have manually moved them (I presume) and then deleted the page they were made on, so they no longer show in my contributions. If you want to move them to some larger archive, perhaps a WP:HISTORYMERGE will do? I have no problems with them being blanked if you prefer, I do however have a problem with them being disconnected from my account contributions. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 04:23, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It's just a couple of edits! It's not like i'm deleting every single edit you ever made! Barts1a (talk) 04:25, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I am very greedy. I like all my comments and edits :) More seriously, I don't like to open a way to comment deletion any further then it already is, it reminds me too much of censorship. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 04:27, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Please don't bring censorship into this. I am not censoring/redacting ANY of the comments in the discussion and never plan to. Barts1a (talk) 04:32, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I couldn't find my comments I made to your talk page half an hour ago. I still cannot figure out where they may be now in your archive system. It might have not been your intention to censor them, fair, but that is the impression I got. As I said above, I do believe that a simple solution is to WP:HISTORYMERGE them into whatever archive page you want to keep (and I don't care whether you blank them or not afterwords; your userspace is yours to shape how you want - just like my contributions are mine to keep). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 04:36, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * If it makes you feel better... http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Barts1a&oldid=395855423
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Barts1a&oldid=395853036
 * As you can see: your contributions are still there and viewable.
 * Oops... forgot to sign Barts1a (talk) 07:19, 11 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Keep - For the reasons already outlined above; there is no good reason to hide the contributions of another editor in such a manner, even if not intentionally, although I would prefer the historymerge already noted above.—  Dæ dαlus Contribs 05:27, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep Comment - MfD seems an odd choice, we have no reason to doubt that if there was an issue with Barts1a compliance with WP:USER then s/he would have resolved by normal discussion if asked. I note that Barts1a has received some guidance and criticism recently, but has stayed open to dialogue. Unless I have missed something in the history here, a friendly nudge from fellow Wikipedians may be more helpful than bureaucracy. Fæ (talk) 10:54, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Altered to comment rather than keep, I did originally miss the point that Barts1a was requesting the deletion. Fæ (talk) 23:27, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Update The page has been restored with the MfD template intact. I also noticed a sneaky edit here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Barts1a/discussion1&action=historysubmit&diff=395988704&oldid=395870302 I will not be removing the edit mentioned in this diff but just wish to point out that the times will cause some confusion. (Mainly because if I just go ahead and delete it I will be flamed almost constantly!)
 * Delete as requested. This is just a duplicate page--the material is not being deleted ,since it is in the archive of the main talk page, at Anyone may archive whatever parts of their talkpage they want--there are some users who archive everything as soon as they answer it. Once it has been archived there is generally  no reason to keep it visible elsewhere.  (There are  even some users who delete everything as soon as they answer it and tell people to rely on the edit history--I do not think that is a good practice, and I think it ought not be permitted, but it seems to be tolerated).    DGG ( talk ) 15:09, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
 * This is not just a duplicate or archive page, because it was not tagged or named as an archive. It had a title suggesting that it was current, and an inviting comment at the top ("NOTICE TO ALL USERS / Please place any comments you wish to make at the BOTTOM of the talk page. Thank you").  This makes it a continuing talk page.  It is not unreasonable to think that users may pre-partition their userspace discussions by subject, or otherwise.  Having done this, it is unreasonable to expect to be able to delete other's original comments.  A message here is that archives should be clearly labelled.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 12:05, 15 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Speedy delete Absolutely. Merely posting talk text on a subuser page does not make the page fall under the guideline "your user page or user talk page". If it did, then we would have a huge mess on our hands 'cause any one could go around posting talk text on user subpages and then claim that their personal approval is needed to delete that use subpage or that timely consensus at MfD is needed to delete the page. Also, the user talk archive was not created by page move, so again the page does not fall under the guideline "your user page or user talk page". The fact that Bart1 is blanking parts of his user talk page is a separate issue and we should not use MfD to punish Bart1a. Bart1a properly requested CSD U1 speedy deletion of personal user subpages. Even if the outcome of this MfD is keep, Bart1 still has a right to speedy delete this personal user subpages. Bart1a, you also have a right to take this decision to not speedy delete your subpage to Deletion review in addition to maintaining this MfD as they are two separate issues. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 09:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Ask for consent to delete per WP:CSD#G7, due to these two edits.  Unsure, if Piotrus wants the edit kept.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 10:25, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I only now see that User:Piotrus posted prominently in the beginning. I support Piotrus' position.  User:Barts1a created an alternative talk page, and once Piotrus began to use it non-trivially, as reasonably expected it was intended, User:Barts1a lost his right to have it deleted on whim.  The fact that Piotrus made non-trivial edits to the page, which in Piotrus' mind at least were for the good of the project, means that the page is not speediable.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:59, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Move/Userfy for Piotrus per Hobit below. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:24, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per 's request. Because this page was in the user namespace and was not created by a page move, it should be deleted per the hosting user's request. I agree with the comments by about the applicability/non-applicability of the guideline "your user page or user talk page". Cunard (talk) 00:44, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete Can't see much of significance to be worth keeping and as DGG points out it's also archived elsewhere. The objection to the U1 claims that deleting them would a copyright issue, that is incorrect, copyright doesn't include a right for your "work" to be perpetually published by someone. --82.7.40.7 (talk) 10:10, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete or Move as a reasonable request in ones user space or move to Piotrus's user space if he really wants to keep this around. I take a liberal view of one's rights in one's own user space.  Hobit (talk) 22:25, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Move or Delete I quite like Hobit's suggestion to move it to Piotrus userspace. If that is not an option: delete as it is duplicate material already included in the users archive page, as pointedo out by DGG. Yoenit (talk) 23:27, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.