Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Brianboulton/drafts

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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was:  keep for actioning outside of MfD. Consensus is very clearly against deletion of a recently deceased Wikipedian's, 's, sandbox. As the nominator notes, this page wasn't created by the deceased Wikipedian in question, and it seems like this was a good intentioned effort on the part of  to organize a list of the subject's drafts, but ultimately, this should've been discussed first. Noting that has now reworked the subject page into a list of drafts the subject had been working on, for possible moving into a subpage of Deceased Wikipedians, as suggested by, this seems like the easiest way to resolve the situation, and that movement, with or without leaving a trailing redirect, can be done outside of MfD. (non-admin closure) Doug Mehus T · C  18:30, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

User:Brianboulton/drafts

 * – (View MfD) New page created in deceased users namespace.. Not created  by the deceased. This Wikipedian is deceased.....should not be mucking about in this users space. Not a playground. Moxy 🍁 03:18, 10 February 2020 (UTC)


 * 'Strong KEEP. .:I am here in direct response to a request by, at WP:Village pump. at the link below. so this is based on his direct input. if anyone wishes to object, , I'd prefer to have a discussion on the talk page. I am open to other views.


 * Sorry, but I cannot believe this is being treated as some simple miscellany for deletions.


 * Original request
 * this is based on the request found at this link: Link to WP:Pump page.
 * Text of request:
 * Death and legacy of User:Brianboulton
 * As you may know, one of our strongest contributors, Brian Boulton, has recently passed away. He leaves behind User:Brianboulton/Sandbox, a sandbox with links to twenty-one draft pages. Some of these are empty, perhaps already having been finished, but many others contain content from which Brian probably intended to either develop new articles or improve existing articles. It would be great if some Wikipedians could sort through these and see what can be done to complete the last items that Brian was working on. BD2412  T 02:00, 30 January 2020 (UTC)


 * thanks. --Sm8900 (talk) 03:22, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * We would need someone that understands the objective in the request...not just someone mucking about with making new pages in a dead user name space. -- Moxy 🍁 03:15, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * the request was ARCHIVED BY A BOT. So I am the ONLY person who is working on this effort. --Sm8900 (talk) 03:22, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The request was to review the sandboxes to see if any have merit to work on ...not to make a page that noone will see with a copy pasted quote.-- Moxy 🍁 03:32, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * My efforts will help ANY OTHER editor who wants to work on this. you are simply deleting my work, and not replacing it with anything. --Sm8900 (talk) 03:34, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * We have a link already User:Brianboulton/Sandbox...pls explain how this page with a quote will help? I find this very disrespectful to muck about in this users namespace. You have your hands in many many baskets right now and this is one that needs expert attention.-- Moxy 🍁 03:41, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I made one page move, then left a message for, to request his input. --Sm8900 (talk) 03:44, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not even sure which quote you are referring to. do you mean the quote of BD2412's request? --Sm8900 (talk) 03:45, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Now your moving pages in this dead user's namespace??? Pls find some other pages to play with.-- Moxy 🍁 03:51, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

everything I have done is completely clear just from the contents of the page that your nomination above refers to. --Sm8900 (talk) 03:54, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * To be clear, I have made no specific request of any editor other than my general request at the Village Pump for editors to complete Brian Boulton's work. I agree that this is inappropriate. You are free to create a page in your own userspace for this purpose. I have asked at Wikipedia talk:Deceased Wikipedians whether we should have a section under that project to collaborate on such work. I would add, however, that it appears that you have been editing Wikipedia since 2006, and I am surprised at some of your conduct in light of that, and a bit concerned. BD2412  T 04:27, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * my goal is to make it as easy as possible for other editors to benefit from the intellectual and erudite work of this valued and cherished member of our community. since no one else has done so. I want to make sure the long and painstaking work evidenced by these drafts can be readily built upon by other editors who might seek to build upon this heartfelt and admirable creative effort. --Sm8900 (talk) 04:50, 10 February 2020 (UTC)


 * This is unbecoming. Please stop fiddling with his userpages unless you are genuinely interested in continuing their development.  Please clean up User talk:Brianboulton by removing the inappropriate MfD notices.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:57, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I am interested in continuing their development. I have already begun to do so for this draft. there is an existing article at Wikipedia for this composer, so that is where this excellent and extensive material belongs. I plan to add it to the article in the next day or two. --Sm8900 (talk) 12:10, 10 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Keep Suggest Brian's draft is left as he left it (maybe with a note), and copied by Sm8900 to his own user-space, where no one will mind him working on it. Johnbod (talk) 13:56, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * :...the page in question was not created by the deceased....so keep why?-- Moxy 🍁 23:00, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * , the whole point was to enable users to work on this editor's drafts, in his own user space. that was the whole point of this entire effort, and also the whole point of 's request which brought me to that space in the first place. and supports some form of work on these drafts in the user space that they are already in. --Sm8900 (talk) 01:48, 11 February 2020 (UTC)


 * hm, well, I guess I could set up the sub-directory for these drafts in my own user space, rather than Mr. Boulton's. I would put his name on it like so: User:Sm8900/Brian Boulton drafts/. is that better as an approach? --Sm8900 (talk) 13:59, 10 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Comment, and a question It's clear to me that, in their enthusiasm to 'do the right thing', has perhaps unintentionally ruffled a few feathers by responding as they did to the VP request by  for help to rescue the late Mr Boulton's partial sandbox drafts.  I can't fault them for wanting to help out - though there are now so many ongoing discussions initiated by this editor on so many varied topics that I am finding it rather hard to keep up. It seems to me that A) nobody wants to see someone's incomplete work lying fallow and unused, yet B) that nobody wants to see one editor messing with a deceased Wikipedian's userpages. The solution therefore seems to be either to follow 's suggestion and let Sm8900 do all the work by themselves in their own subpages, or that a proposal be put to the discussion over at Wikipedia talk:Deceased Wikipedians to recognise the need for those involved editors to create subpages for each relevant Wikipedian's incomplete efforts to be indexed and worked on, in a shared collaborative manner, and from there each finished page would only be released to mainspace when all issues around respect for the original Wikipedian's work and attribution, plus a desire to see there work utilised are fully met. I suspect Sm8900 has enough on their plate right now to not want to take on that task solely by themselves, yet were simply trying to move things forwards for the good of the Project.  As such, I'm not sure that a quick deletion discussion is the best way to have approached this, yet I appreciate the sensitivities raised here.
 * So, perhaps I could ask a straightforward question of Sm8900: do you, really and honestly, want to take on all this work all by yourself, or have you, in your enthusiasm, realised you might have committed to far more than you now see you can deliver on your own? (In the past, IRL, I have fallen foul of enthusiastically offering to do the right thing, only to later come to appreciate I have taken on a huge responsibility that has weighted me down for quite some time.) There is no shame in admitting that, and I'd like to think your answer to that question might inform the discussion, both here and at Wikipedia talk:Deceased Wikipedians. Thanks, Nick Moyes (talk) 19:48, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * , you ask excellent questions!! yes, i am ready to do the work. but the thing is, i was open to both approaches.
 * I was fully ready to simply rename all these files, in order to indicate their subject matter more easily, and create an archive that would enable any editor to come along as easily view all these drafts, and yet keep them right here, in the user space for Mr. Boulton's work. If you view that page now, at User:Brianboulton/drafts, you can see the model that I intended to adopt; I renamed one sandbox draft, moved it to be a subpage of the page for "drafts" and then used a template that would display a link for all sub-pages.
 * this MfD is the only thing that stopped me from doing so.
 * In regards to your second question, the answer is, yes, absolutely. Even though my initial intent was, again, to create an online archive which would be viewable to anyone in an open fashion. but if this MfD is going to block that effort, then yes, absolutely, i would be willing to do all the work myself, and move all this to my user space. so far, the one draft that I looked at fits right into an existing article anyway.
 * there is a third option. I could move all these articles to my user space, as recommended by, but then leave a template in Mr. Boulton's user space that displays the list of drafts from my userspace, as a sub-pages of the main page for drafts. I am planning to do that regardless, just to be transparent as possible.
 * so that is my answer. is that helpful? again, i am fully open to either route or either option. this MfD was the only reason that I was not able to create a collaborative resource which would enable other editors to view these contents more easily, but to do so right in the current user space.
 * please feel free to let me know what you think. i appreciate your help. thanks!! --Sm8900 (talk) 20:22, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Actually, now that I have had the chance to fully express myself, let me just say, I still prefer the first option above. it is easier and better, and frankly, I think it is more appropriate for items of this nature. this MfD was the only thing that threw a curveball into this picture. so based on your great suggestion above, I am going to quote your own proposal below, and indicate my own agreement. thanks.
 * Agree. As per initial proposal above, I agree with this suggestion by : "a proposal be put to the discussion over at Wikipedia talk:Deceased Wikipedians to recognise the need for those involved editors to create subpages for each relevant Wikipedian's incomplete efforts to be indexed and worked on, in a shared collaborative manner, and from there each finished page would only be released to mainspace when all issues around respect for the original Wikipedian's work and attribution, plus a desire to see there work utilised are fully met." thanks. --Sm8900 (talk) 20:34, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

*Keep.  The only basis for deletion would be the erroneous concept that the editor owned the drafts. Even in user space, anyone may edit a draft. It's normal to give the original editor the chance to do it themselves, but since this is not longer possible, they should be kept and anyone who wants to help can work on them.  DGG ( talk ) 03:58, 13 February 2020 (UTC). . I remain unclear about what is being proposed, but however people wantto rescue these is fine with me.  DGG ( talk ) 04:53, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
 * My fault I was not clear .....page was not created by the deceased user..very bad precedent to set for an editor of this nature. .page creation.-- Moxy 🍁 04:36, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, Look i.e., at page link: User:Brianboulton/drafts Also, pinging  --Sm8900 (talk) 04:13, 13 February 2020 (UTC)


 * The underlying concept that the community should complete the drafts started but not completed by an esteemed but sadly deceased editor seems noble to me. However, there are apparently some objections to the creation of a new page in said deceased user's userspace. Therefore, it seems to me that the simple solution is to move the worklist so that it a subpage of Deceased Wikipedians (if they want it, which I hope they would; it is being discussed). Failing that, keep, as an aid to completing Mr Boulton's work in the interests of Wikipedia. --kingboyk (talk) 14:06, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: I have just reworked the page so that it looks more like an actual worklist, rather than the creation of an over-enthusiastic user who seems to just want to make their presence felt everywhere while doing little useful work. Suggesting this nomination be closed/withdrawn now (cc ). SD0001 (talk) 16:54, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * is that comment meant to reflect on my efforts? I do not see any basis for making that comment, when the topic is actual work that was specifically requested by the fifth most-active editor at Wikipedia, and which no one else had done. Anyway, as I have already told you, I do appreciate your edits to your page, and I think your contributions and edits have been extremely helpful and positive for improving that page.
 * I would appreciate your understanding. thanks. also tagging to notify them of this discussion here. thanks. --Sm8900 (talk) 18:55, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.