Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Davidfradin/David fradin

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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was:  delete. ✗ plicit  23:53, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

User:Davidfradin/David fradin

 * – (View MfD) &#8203;

Old self-promotion from 2009. Hog Farm Talk 22:56, 2 June 2021 (UTC)


 * why do you wnat to delete a biography? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davidfradin (talk • contribs) 23:05, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. (edit conflict with above comment by user) This fellow seems to be here for some other reason than creating the world's finest online encyclopedia, but that's for a different board. Anything this extensive and self promoting fails WP:NOTHERE and WP:USERBIO. BusterD (talk) 23:14, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete - The author's question is sort of self-answering. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:27, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete - reasons are self-apparent IMO. — Ched (talk) 19:59, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep : The user has a couple of edits that appear very good. This is an extreme case for  qualifying as a contributor and being allowed to give a self description.  Tag the page as a Userpage, and as the user’s autobiography.  SmokeyJoe (talk) 22:06, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. I can't agree with that assessment; if my reading is correct, both of the editor's pagepace edits (just two in 12 years) include references to the editor himself. 1) "...development was continued under the Apple /// Independent Business Unit which was formed in August, 1983 under the leadership of David Fradin...."; 2). "...David Fradin's team successfully transfered 500 developers to Guy Kawasaki, who at the time was the Macintosh evangelist..." No, SmokeyJoe, in twelve years of possessing an active account, (except for his objection to this process and adding the word "personal" to the page up for deletion), Mr. Fradin has never edited Wikipedia without mentioning himself. Not once. I believe we call that sort of activity "self promotion"; it's not why most of us are here. BusterD (talk) 22:19, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks User:BusterD for your assessment of his contributions, which I had not done. Agree that self-promotion contributions alone do not justify an autobiographical userpage.  Delete.   —SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:45, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Additional comment pointed towards David Fradin. It is a tragic thing that Mr. Fradin, a person who has had an outsized influence on the early development of HP and Apple products, has NOT yet chosen to edit Wikipedia in the fields in which he is clearly knowledgeable (without self promotion). As I was mentioning to another connected editor today, specialized knowledge is badly needed these days on Wikipedia, especially from those who likely know the sources better than anybody. For example, if I could talk to (not dead) E. Gary Gygax today, I would be most interested (from my wikipedian vantage point) about what he thought (individually) of the many personal narratives which are now being published on the subject of early development of the role-playing game. As a living writer he would be an excellent source of critique on how people have viewed that era of history. Here is Mr. Fradin, swollen with actual first-hand inside knowledge, and (aside from writing several books, teaching tens of thousands of students, creating FASST, and starting a vastly successful and important UMICH flying club) I don't see him helping us find writing of his first-hand narrative or pointing us towards multiple interviews in which his personal experience and judgement can influence the way history is written (in the pedia). I don't say these things to belittle anyone. I say these things because as human beings we can only value someone's experience if they share their experience with others, as I'm sure Mr. Fradin does every day in class. Before he doesn't have that opportunity anymore, like the late Mr. Gygax. I urge potentially invaluable wikipedian User:Davidfradin to consider helping us evaluate sources on material he knows like the back of his hand. I know the man is busy. I'd argue we need his knowledge as a contributor if we're going to tell the story correctly. BusterD (talk) 23:47, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.