Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Drnhawkins/Moses and the Israelites served Amenemhet III during the 12th dynasty of Egypt

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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was  Delete. --RL0919 (talk) 02:36, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

User:Drnhawkins/Moses and the Israelites served Amenemhet III during the 12th dynasty of Egypt


This is a userspace draft of an article that will never make it in mainspace because it is pure original research on a WP:fringe topic. The editor is working on a series of these and though WP:NOR and WP:RS have been pointed out to him numerous times, he has trouble with these issues. Lady of  Shalott  02:42, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: please also see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Drnhawkins/An alternative view of the 3rd dynasty of Egypt. Lady  of  Shalott  02:50, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete per noms reasonings. WP:FRINGE, WP:SYNTH and WP:OR forking from existing articles on subject because they do not agree with the creators religious sensibilities.  He  iro  02:53, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete - Per both above; I think that they have covered it.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come shout at me!) 03:59, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete, being strictly based on OR and SYNTH... All said above. He started to add some-of-the-content to articles, so it's better to remove now.     ~ AdvertAdam   talk  08:58, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't delete The following diagram is based almost entirely on the Bible. The Bible contains the historical records of the Jews and it is more reliable than Manetho or Heiroglyphic records or dating based upon pottery.  Wikipedia editor seem to regard Egyptian records put together and dated by archaeologists as "gospel"and treat the Bible as Mythical. This is just not right. After all, the western dating system is based on the Bible!!  The information contained within the follwing diagrams has every right to be in Wikipedia. --Drnhawkins (talk) 09:47, 26 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete There have been a number of efforts to explain our policies on sourcing and original research to this article but he still doesn't get it. I note that he is now adding this stuff to articles, adding File:Egyptian dynasties and the Bible.gif which is also OR but to make things worse he is adding links to his userspace drafts. And now he's created User:Drnhawkins//Archives/Where do Moses and the Israelites fit into Egyptian History?. We shouldn't have to spend so much time on something like this. (And the 'western dating system' is not based on the Bible, it's based on an erroneous figure for Jesus's birth year. Dougweller (talk) 09:55, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

thumb|left|500px|Timeline of Biblical dates from Noah to Christ.
 *  Don't Delete . Wikipedia allows articles like The Exodus which clearly portray the Bible in an athiest light. This article contains the following picture. thumb|360px|Possible Exodus Routes. In black is the traditional Exodus route; other possible routes are in blue and green.  In this picture, The Jews never even leave Egypt. Sinai is placed in between the two arms of the Red Sea and the Jews do not even have to cross any body of water to get to it, let alone the Red Sea which is what the Bible says.  The Bible also says that Sinai is in Arabia.  How do you explain that?  Wikipedia just has no regard for the Bible and they are determined to portray is as fable.--Drnhawkins (talk) 10:41, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't delete . Wikipedia allows articles like Twelfth dynasty of Egypt with only one reference - a book call the Royal families of Egypt.  They allow this article in Main space with no citations at all.  It does say citations needed.  The dates are totally uncontested and totaly unreferenced and unsubstantiated and wrong too! --Drnhawkins (talk) 10:59, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Don't delete. Wikipedia allows index articles like List of ancient Egyptian dynasties but they won't do it for Biblical Kings of Israel. --Drnhawkins (talk) 11:05, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Don't Delete . Wikipedia does not accept blatant photographic evidence like this pile of mud brick as evidence that there were 2 million Isralite slaves in Egypt!!  --Drnhawkins (talk) 11:12, 26 July 2011 (UTC)thumb|right|400px|The Pyramid of Amenemhat III at Hawara. Millions of large mudbricks went into the building of the Pyramid for Amenemhet III's pryamid. It was originally faced with stone but it is now just a heap of mud bricks.  The Bible records that when the Israelites were slaves in Egypt, Pharaoh forced them to make mudbricks for him. (Exodus 5:6-21)

--Drnhawkins (talk) 11:12, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * No, we will not accept photographic evidence of a brick pyramid as evidence that there a particular number of a particular nationality of slaves in that land. However, if you could point to a reliable independant source that said as much, that would be most welcome.  Please stop adding pictures to these pages, it is disruptive.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 12:20, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

This is a good starting point for reconciling the histories of these Ancient civilizations
Don't Delete. There is a great need to try to reconcile the Histories of these ancient nations. If wikipedia allows my article to go into main space I will provide an editable copy of the picture in PNG format so that others can fill in the Blanks and then mail it to me so I can update it (as long as they preserve the Biblical dates that are given) and provide reliable sources.--Drnhawkins (talk) 11:25, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Egyptian dynasties and the Bible.gif|thumb|right|800px|Correlation of Egyptian Dynasties with the Bible. The Israelites lived in Egypt 430 years from 1875bc to 1445BC. They became slaves in the 12th dynasty long after the death of Joseph (Imhotep). They were lead out of Egypt in 1445 BC by Moses in the 13th dynasty (Neferhotep). The loss of the Egyptian army in the Red Sea allowed the Hyksos (Amelekites) to invade Egypt where they ruled for hundreds of years. Jacob and his family numbering around 70 came to Egypt about 10 yrs after Joseph became visier to Djoser of the 3rd dynasty 1875BC When the Israelites left Egypt, they numbered around 2 million.--Drnhawkins (talk) 11:25, 26 July 2011 (UTC) ]]

So what is an acceptible solution
What solution can you offer that allows some discussion (in main space) about who was the Pharaoh contemporary with Abraham, Joseph, Moses (and also the Isralites who were in Egypt for 430 years and grew from 70 to 2 million in that time). I understand about what you say about original research and reliable sources but your policies put Christianity at a disadvantage because you do not accept the Bible as a reliable source of Historical information.--Drnhawkins (talk) 14:34, 26 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Delete - This editor, while in good faith, simply refuses to accept our standards. His original research has no place here. -- Orange Mike  &#x007C;   Talk  17:30, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete - pure, unadulterated WP:OR and WP:FRINGE. The only acceptable solution is deletion. – ukexpat (talk) 17:58, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:OR. -- Klein zach  02:37, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom, not even for WP:ABANDONED DRAFTS.  EBE123  talkContribs 21:45, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete. Wikipedia is not a free webhost for WP:FRINGE WP:FAKEARTICLEs and original research. MER-C 03:03, 28 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Notice An RfC has been created at Requests for comment/Drnhawkins. Dougweller (talk) 16:06, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete per everyone else causa sui (talk) 23:29, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Delete Per OrangeMike et al. Peridon (talk) 20:05, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.