Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Geo Swan/Guantanamo/articles about captives that aren't ready yet/Martin Mubanga

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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was Delete. -- Cirt (talk) 01:13, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

User:Geo Swan/Guantanamo/articles about captives that aren't ready yet/Martin Mubanga
Not really clear why this "not yet ready" article was created in 2007, when the real article Martin Mubanga was created by the same author in 2005. Anyway, the contents of this page are in the real article, and it isn't being worked on, being essentailly a badly sourced old copy of a BLP page. Fram (talk) 12:07, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

For basically the same reason, I'ld like to also nominate
 * User:Geo Swan/Guantanamo/articles about captives that aren't ready yet/Abdul Al-Rahim Ghulam Rabbani (a copy of the older article Abdul Al-Rahim Ghulam Rabbani)
 * User:Geo Swan/Guantanamo/articles about captives that aren't ready yet/Mohammed Ahmad Ghulam Rabbani (a copy of Mohammed Ahmad Ghulam Rabbani)
 * User:Geo Swan/Guantanamo/articles about captives that aren't ready yet/Al Hajj Abdu Ali Sharqawi (we have Al Hajj Abdu Ali Sharqawi)
 * User:Geo Swan/Guantanamo/articles about captives that aren't ready yet/Waqas Mohammed Ali Ayad (Waqas Mohammed Ali Awad)
 * User:Geo Swan/Guantanamo/articles about captives that aren't ready yet/Abu Sufian Ibrahim Ahmed Hamuda Bin Qumu (Abu Sufian bin Qumu)
 * User:Geo Swan/Guantanamo/articles about captives that aren't ready yet/Saudi captives who are known to be released, but otherwise undocumented/Salim Suliman Al Harbi (Salim Suliman Al Harbi)
 * User:Geo Swan/Guantanamo/articles about captives that aren't ready yet/Saudi captives who are known to be released, but otherwise undocumented/Saeed Ali Al-Farha Al-Ghamdi (Said Ali al Farha)

In answer to nominator's question, If there is an article in the wikipedia's main article space for an individual, and a subpage under User:Geo Swan, that now seems clearly to be about the same individual it is due to the creation of a subpage under one of the individuals' other names.
 * 1) the publications of the names of the Guantanamo captives was subject to long delays,
 * 2) the real base names of the Guantanamo captives has been subject to great confusion, partly due to the difficulty in transliterating Arabic names into our alphabet, partly due to genuine confusion about the captives' identities on the part of DoD staff, and, in some cases DoD staff seem to have deliberately obfuscated the captives' names, in order to frustrate their habeas attorneys.

It took me ages, for instance, to recognize that Hassan Zumiri and Ahcene Zemiri were two names for the same individual.

When sufficient references emerged to reliably tie the various names to a single individual any information on the subpage should have been merged into the main article. Once the subpage has been checked for that it could be deleted. I don't apologize for normal human fallibility, other priorities, causing me to overlook this.

However, I suggest that mfd is overkill in situations like this. It seems to me that there is no need for a nominator to waste anyone else's time, and a simple question on my talk page would have been sufficient. Geo Swan (talk) 12:55, 14 October 2010 (UTC)


 * How long did it take for you to recognise that Martin Mubanga, which you created in 2005, and the exactly identically named subpage you created over a year later, where about the same person? Considering that neither page was ever moved, and that no alternative names are listed, I fail to see where the confusion comes from or how your two points actually apply here. In fact, six of the eight pages have the exact same name. In all cases, you created both the subpage and the real article. And considering that your reaction to a previous case of an article on a BLP in your userspace was not to delete it, but to keep it without the biographical text, which is still a useless linkfarm on a living person, I had (and have) little confidence in the usefulness of first going around to your talk page. If you had reacted to Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Geo Swan/review with going through your userspace subpages and G7 nominating all the ones no longer of use, things would have looked more credible. Iqinn identified 40 pages like the 8 ones nominated here, things like User:Geo Swan/gitmo/Jarallah al-Marri. But as far as I can tell, you haven't taken any action on the pages mentioned in that MfD, apart from User:Geo Swan/review/Joan Sinclair. Also, other recent MfD's like Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Geo Swan/Guantanamo/review/Abdul Haq (Northern Alliance translator) don't give me any reason to first try your userpage before bringing things here.Fram (talk) 13:15, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Comment The user knows about problems in his user space since at least a year. I posted him numerous friendly requests starting a year ago, to at least add the NOINDEX tag to these pages as a first damage control. I did not know about Mfd's and user space rules at that time. He was reluctant to do so and after six month he fully refused to do this. I then added the tag myself what was a lot of work. After i did that he promptly went to ANI to complain about me how dare i could add a tag to his pages. After his complain was rejected by ANI he started to personally attack me in the same discussion by putting out serious false allegations against me. He was then ask by the member of this discussion to provide evidence for his allegations against me. He failed to deliver and he has failed ever since. That's about how much we can trust this user that he would fix the problems himself. More than a year without any serious attempt to fix these problems are more than enough. IQinn (talk) 13:21, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete all, effectively WP:NOT; these people are highly unlikely to ever become article subjects. Stifle (talk) 15:55, 14 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete all, per WP:UP biased version of existing main space articles. IQinn (talk) 04:10, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete all per WP:FAKEARTICLE: Userspace is not a free web host and should not be used to indefinitely host pages that look like articles, old revisions, or deleted content, or your preferred version of disputed content. Private copies of pages that are being used solely for long-term archival purposes may be subject to deletion. All these pages haven't been edited by their creator in years. Salvio  Let's talk about it! 18:04, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete all per WP:FAKEARTICLE, just as said above. DARTH SIDIOUS 2 (Contact) 09:52, 17 October 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.