Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/ASEAN Young Scientists Network

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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was:  moved to User:GerardM's userspace. In the midst of this MFD, the pages were moved into GerardM's userspace. Many of the previous delete vote rationales were based on the fact that these pages existed in the userspace of a blocked user, so moving them into another user's space should assuage those concerns. No prejudice against nominating these pages for deletion again if anyone has a real problem with their content, regardless of where they are located. ‑Scottywong | [babble] || 15:58, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/ASEAN Young Scientists Network

 * – (View MfD)

See WP:AN. User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam has never edited here and was already blocked last year. Two other editors have created more than 100 subpages in their userspace though. Most of these have been speedy deleted (U5), but a handful had their speedy template removed. These are all included in this nomination.

It was suggested to the editors involved that these pages, if they had any use, belonged on Wikidata or (if they were appropriate on enwiki) in projectspace or in their own userspace. No indication was given that any of these suggestions were even considered. Fram (talk) 12:57, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Also nominated are:
 * User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/Academy of Sciences Malaysia
 * User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/Dufferin Medal
 * User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/Early Career Life Scientist Award
 * User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/European Prize in Combinatorics
 * User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/Ghana Young Academy
 * User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/Heinz Maier-Leibnitz Prize
 * User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/IEEE Young Professionals
 * User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/KNAW Early Career Award
 * User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/Kihara Memorial Foundation Academic Award
 * User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/Prix du meilleur jeune économiste de France
 * User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/Tanzania Young Academy of Sciences Fram (talk) 12:57, 18 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete as a misuse of another user's userspace. No objection to the pages being moved to the userspace of a real editor or to some WikiProject's subpages in the week that this discussion runs. Cabayi (talk) 13:03, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Keep These are clearly useful pages created in good faith by people wanting to work to develop Wikipedia. If necessary, they can be moved into "Wikipedia:Wikiproject" space, though that seems like rather pointless make-work. Note that the other pages in the series were speedily-deleted despite (and presumably without awareness of) my request that they be de-tagged in bulk. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:12, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * , your description of the pages being "created in good faith" is where we differ. I don't see how the use of a blocked group account's user pages by a member of that group can be described as good faith. Cabayi (talk) 13:17, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Your failure to see is irrelevant; you - nor anyone else - has presented any evidence that the pages were created in bad faith. The account is only soft-blocked for username reasons; as I have already pointed out to you elsewhere, they are welcome to edit under a new name. And the (different) user who created these useful pages is an editor in good standing. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:30, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * And again you fail to grasp (or WP:IDHT) that it was a group account. The members of the group already had accounts. is not a different user - he's a named member of the group. Cabayi (talk) 14:06, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * And again you fail to provide any evidence. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:11, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I've emailed you the opening paragraph from User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam. Cabayi (talk) 14:28, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Where was no need to do that, you could easily have posted it here. You sent me text saying "This list is curated by GYA (Dr. Robert Lepenies leading a task force of wikidata volunteers) with contributions from Gerard Meijssen and several volunteers. If you want to be part of this, let us know.". It is not evidence of what you claim; and is certainly not evidence that the pages nominated here were created in bad faith. Nor does it any way justify deleting them. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:55, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * In what way are pages which have been empty from the start until now (e.g. User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/ASEAN Young Scientists Network or User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/Tanzania Young Academy of Sciences) or pages for which we have a better page already (compare e.g. User:GlobalYoungAcademyTeam/Dufferin Medal and Dufferin Medal) "clearly useful pages"? Never mind that GerardM, who created most of these, already has more similar pages in his own user page (more than 600 than he has made mainspace edits in the last 5 years, and thus hardly needs a hundred more if he "wants to develop Wikipedia". Fram (talk) 13:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * "he ... hardly needs" Yet another statement made by you, on the basis of a false assumption. Will there be much more of this hectoring? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:30, 18 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Move or delete. Userspace of a blocked role account is most definitely not a space to store meaningful pages. – Majavah talk &middot; edits 13:55, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. Unclear how any of these actually benefit Wikipedia.  I'm open to reconsidering my !vote provided that someone can explain, step-by-step and in excruciating detail, how to use these pages to benefit Wikipedia.  -  F ASTILY   22:20, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete. Using a blocked account’s userspace to create and maintain pages is inappropriate, especially since these pages weren’t even created by the blocked account. As an additional secondary factor, there hasn’t been demonstrated usage of this for creating or improving WP articles in their existence and are not in a place where one could expect future usage by other editors. Besides WP:U5, this is also an example of WP:USER. Is it even expected that the creation of these pages had the permission of or would be considered helpful to the original user? — MarkH21talk 22:24, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete from descriptions by editor creating them, not actually for the improvement of articles. A data-gathering/tracking project. Would probably be better at wikidata if they could be transwikied there. I would say move to the editor who has been creating/maintaining them. But it wouldn't change the core issue that it doesn't appear to have any direct or indirect intention to improve the encyclopedia. Only in death does duty end (talk) 22:35, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Move. Do these all belong to ?  If yes, they can all be moved into his userspace.  If there are multiple people working together, they could create a WikiProject, or work within an existing WikiProject.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:56, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Most, but not all. — MarkH21talk 10:27, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I think move all to User:GerardM’s userspace is the obvious solution. If someone thinks they still inappropriate, then MfD again, with a rationale that is not focused on the wrong location. I think it is all sufficiently related to the project to be an easy “keep” for a long-standing contributor like GerardM. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:39, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I don’t understand what is so wrong with these pages, apart from being in the wrong place. I don’t know that they look useful, but at a glance they look plausibly project related. Normally, at mfd, someone needs to make an argument that they are not project related.  The pages that were deleted under CSD#U5, were they really blatant NOTWEBHOSTING by a non-contributor?  David Eppstein, User:Fastily? I am inclined to trust your judgement, but a little more explanation please?  —SmokeyJoe (talk) 11:20, 20 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete all. It has been eight years since people from the Global Young Academy were first informed of our ban on role accounts (see User talk:GlobalYA) and the fact that they have tried it repeatedly since then with in 2017 and now with this collection under yet another role-account name means that, for me, the assumption of good faith is gone. Collecting these pages in this way has all the appearance of continuing to flout our rules and continuing to operate role accounts. There is no good reason for it. If they want space to store draft text for articles, first, they shouldn't be doing it at all (we want individual editors, not groups with a self-promoting agenda) and second, they can use their own computers for it rather than needing to keep it in Wikipedia space. —David Eppstein (talk) 04:05, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * These pages were not created by a role account; they were created by a user in good standing. Your final sentence misrepesents policy; we have many Wikiprojects which are jointly manged by groups of editors, and such content is welcome - indeed commonplace - on Wikipedia. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:04, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Question: a principal issue is the creation and maintenance of these pages by a third party, in userspace of a blocked account. Is there anyone who finds these subpages useful in any way, who would be willing to host them in their own userspace instead? If so let them be moved there; if not then delete. -- Euryalus (talk) 13:27, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Note that has moved these pages into their own userspace, which seems to resolve the core of this issue. -- Euryalus (talk) 02:07, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Er, no. Not only does everyone agree that these pages are acceptable their either, but his action (both the move and even more the removal of the MfD notices from these pages) are against what is allowed in this situation. But it seems as if GerardM in general cares little about policies and so on, judging from earlier discussions and discussions I read on other projects... Like I said, they already have hundreds of subpages of little or no value at all, and have more subpages than mainspace edits in the last years. "Notwebhost" applies to their own space as well. Fram (talk) 06:58, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Move to the userspace of whichever user created them. Seems easy enough. If they don't want the content, then delete. &mdash; Rhododendrites  talk \\ 22:01, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Delete all (in any user space). Fails WP:NOTHOSTING, WP:NOTDIR. Not plausibly related to creation of Wikipedia articles. For example, this list of non-notable persons, with contact additional details. These issues are not resolved by moving to an extant user's user space. - Ryk72 talk 02:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I had thought about this before but since you have brought it up, WP:BLPNAME is worded regarding including the names of non notable people in articles. It's a fact however the BLP is taken to apply everywhere on ENWP. It's certainly not in the spirit of the policy that we host lists of non-notable people and locations at which they can be reached. As quite a few of these autogenerated lists are basically transcluded from wikidata (which has no comparable living person policy to exclude them), even if I removed the names citing BLP, the bot would put then back in again next time it's run. This seems another reason why this material should be hosted at wikidata rather than here. Only in death does duty end (talk) 13:01, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Which of the five subclauses of WP:NOTHOST do you feel these pages contravene (for your convenience, the five are: 'Personal web pages'; 'File storage areas'; 'Dating services'; 'Memorials'; and 'Content for projects unrelated to Wikipedia')? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:55, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Notwithstanding that the five subclauses are descriptive, not prescriptive, 5. - Ryk72 talk 14:07, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, that's easily refuted, since PPEscientist (not least on this page), Gerard and I have all pointed out that the purpose of the pages is to identify suitable content for Wikipedia. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:29, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * So you (collectively) say. But the assertion of something using success verbs does not make it so. I say that the publication of directories of non-notable persons (with additional details) is not plausibly related to the creation of wikipedia articles. If the purpose is to sort the non-notable from the notable, this can be done without publication of the non-notable on Wikipedia; particularly so in cases where there is no notable. Given only the NOTHOSTING objection has been addressed here; see also: Necessity and sufficiency. - Ryk72 talk 14:15, 24 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I also note that there are no contact details on User:GerardM/Albanian Young Academy. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:59, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * For "contact details" substitute whatever collective descriptor one would preferentially use for the VIAF ID, Google Scholar ID, ORCID ID of these non-notable persons. - Ryk72 talk 14:07, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * That would be "not contact details". Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:29, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Nu? See my previous, clarifying, edit. The point remains that this, as for the other pages like it, is a directory of non-notable persons. That point is not refuted by quibbling over how best to describe the content of that directory. - Ryk72 talk 14:15, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi guys, sorry, I'm not really able to follow all these discussions, but may I just say that it is NOT the GYA office that is contributing here, but rather individual volunteers from around the world (one of them being me). Happy to answer any questions, but sorry if I don't see this discussions in time. I am mostly active on wikidata, where I found it to be easier to increase the visibility of excellent young scientists around the world, which is our mission. And I am always happy if you can suggest ways to store these pages that conform to your policies. We are a network of thousands of scientists (all elected to their national young academies, with hundreds of already existing wikipedia articles ABOUT them personally) but our main goal is to first get everyone, their research and information about the scientific infrastructure of their region on wikidata, with hopefully this feeding into wikipedia by others who have a similar interest. PPEscientist (talk) 09:09, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for replying here. Is there a reason these pages aren't made on Wikidata instead of on enwiki? Fram (talk) 09:18, 22 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Delete all, not a webhost or a directory, per others. ValarianB (talk) 15:04, 23 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Move to userspace and rename accounts. My take is that these are drafts and that if there is a group account that's not being used properly, then they need to request a name change so it's linked to just one individual. These look like working drafts to me, and may or may not meet the requirements of Manual of Style/Lists articles once they are completed, but looks to me like a WP:DONOTDEMOLISH situation here.   Montanabw (talk) 20:04, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.