Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Hi878/Earth Cabal




 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was  Deleted per CSD U1. HJ Mitchell &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   02:41, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

User:Hi878/Earth Cabal
This doesn't really advance Wikipedia and makes it more into a social site. See here for an example of this "cabal" page at work. I'd like to include anything related to this page, some of which seems to be found here. Killiondude (talk) 05:21, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - There are several of these cabals in existance. This is a continuation of a previous Earth cabal. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ message • changes) 05:30, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, did you mean to say other stuff exists? I mean, I don't really see how either sentence you wrote shows how this helps Wikipedia. Killiondude (talk) 05:31, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep Apparently, you didn't see the other half of the "Our Goals" section. It says: "Revert all vandalism, because vandalism pollutes Wikipedia, and Wikipedia is really all that exists in the world. Igloo is the official vandal-fighting tool of the Earth Cabal. While its use is not required, it is recommended." Doesn't seem to me like I'm turning this into MySpace, unless vandal-fighting has become a bad thing? And really, what harm is there in tagging the talk pages of people that we are already talking to? Apparently, you didn't read the rules, either. We aren't just going to devote all of our time on Wikipedia to going around tagging random talk pages. Hi878 (talk) 05:33, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Your defense of this as promoting a good cause is invalid. Though the cabal purports to promote vandal-fighting, I've seen only social-networking. Vandalism patrolling through Igloo can be done without a cabal. "Doesn't seem to me like I'm turning this into MySpace." Au contraire: Classic MySpace behavior. Cunard (talk) 05:48, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, the first comment in that section is someone saying that there is a point to this, anti-vandalism, and apparently that comment is aimed at you delete-voters. :) I do understand that you were pointing at the comments below, I just thought that was a bit funny. Hi878 (talk) 05:53, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * This proves the point that when an editor attempts to steer User:Hi878/Earth Cabal into doing productive work, the members ignore him/her and continue with their social-networking. Cunard (talk) 05:59, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * That was extremely rude. If you would bother to do some looking around, you would have noticed that after he suggested to make the vandal-fighting more obvious, I went ahead and did that. I did what he suggested, I did not ignore him. Do not insult me like that again. Hi878 (talk) 06:06, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, you listened to the user but the rest of the discussion degenerated into social networking. Having looked through the talk pages of yourself and the other cabal members, I have noticed that the cabal has led to Myspacing behavior. Cunard (talk) 06:22, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * That user has now !voted: you are right Cunard, that really did quickly degenerate into WP:MySpacing of the crudest sort. For me, it was really just a bit of light relief with, possibly, a serious twist at the start but then I slept on it and realised it was anything but...  You live and learn I guess.  Yours thoroughly embarrassed and humiliated  --Jubilee♫ clipman  15:41, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete, WP:NOTSOAPBOX/1. This is advocation of a political message not related to the project.  The worth of the cause is irrelevant.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:37, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Establishing a community of vandal fighters, involving coordination, strategy, resources and mentoring is great. It is the weaving in of an external issue that is not OK.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:01, 12 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete per WP:NOTMYSPACE and WP:NOTSOAPBOX. Divisive pages do not belong on Wikipedia. Nor do pages that promote social-networking. Cunard (talk) 05:48, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Look at the second half of the goals, please. Hi878 (talk) 05:53, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Your defense of this as promoting a good cause is invalid. Though the cabal purports to promote vandal-fighting, I've seen only social-networking. Vandalism patrolling through Igloo can be done without a cabal. Cunard (talk) 05:59, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * But what is the harm of using a cabal? If users will be able to have a bit more fun while editing, then they will no doubt do it more. Hi878 (talk) 06:06, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Please read SmokeyJoe's comment. WP:NOTSOAPBOX applies here. Cunard (talk) 06:22, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * This deletion discussion includes the following pages:

To other editors, feel free to add other pages to this list if I have missed any or if any new ones are created. Cunard (talk) 06:11, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * That's all that there is. Hi878 (talk) 06:15, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep ALL PAGES! Everything that will tie together all the forces in the Universe against vandalism is more than welcome! –p joe f (talk • contribs) 10:17, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep Valid use of userbox.  No evidence that it is used as a "cabal" except humourously (like the "Cabal Approved" tag used by some editors). Collect (talk) 10:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi! Did you miss the premise of my nomination statement and the delete vs. keep votes here? It's not about whether it is an (omg) cabal. It's whether it has any benefit toward the encyclopedia and whether it violates a certain WP:NOT. Killiondude (talk) 17:12, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no requirement that userboxes benefit WP. In point of fact, many are there just to say something (almost anything) about the user. As long as it defames no one, there is no reason to delete. Absent a reason to delete, the default is to Keep.  We have userboxes listing national origins, languages, food preferences, what computers the editor uses, operating systems,  favorite musicians, political beliefs, favourite colours,  and more. None of which "benefit" WP in any way.  In short, there is no rule at all that a userbox must "benefit" WP that I have ever found.   Collect (talk) 17:52, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * This isn't about a userbox. Click the link in the header. Killiondude (talk) 22:32, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - I got involved in fun, and in support of reverting vandalism, but have since seen too much Myspacing to support any longer. Reverting vandalism is a worthy goal, but that is not the primary interest of this cabal.  PrincessofLlyr royal court 13:11, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete - I got involved simply because the page is marked "humorous" and stayed involved when I later felt that the anti-vandalism via igloo using global warming as an analogy idea was quite clever. However, the !owner of this cabal a) has taken the whole "which continent do you want? no one can be neutral!" thing far too seriously, destroying the humour of the page for me and b) not really followed up on the global-warming–igloo–anti-vandalism idea (which now seems more like an afterthought).  Ultimately, this has become a classic WP:MYSPACE episode and, though it might just be useful to keep the pages as an example of how not to do things on WP, we seem to have plenty of examples of that so my !vote is Delete rather than Mark as Historical or Archive  --Jubilee♫ clipman  15:20, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't have a problem with these "cabals". I don't have a problem with user talk pages being "conquered". While this cabal may have initially been about anti-vandalism, it has gotten way out of hand and now seems to be more about "being the leader of this continent". If you look at User:Hirohisat's original Earth Cabal, you'll see that it didn't seem to get that out of hand. It appears that Hirohisat "conquered" pages, but the cabal didn't seem to be about "being the leader of this continent". If the new Earth Cabal can be improved so it's more like the old one, then I wouldn't have a problem keeping it. However, if it just continues to get completely out of hand, then I wouldn't have a problem relisting it for deletion. -- Meag h a n  ) ≈ 20:32, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * If you look closer, Hirohisat never did anything with it, he made the page and left it, apparently. Hi878 (talk) 21:46, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi878, I think it would be a good idea to not have the World Leaders thing. That is probably the root of most of the delete votes. Plus, I don't see many other cabals that have anything related to the "Leaders" thing (in fact, I haven't seen any that have anything related to that). I am sorry, Hi878, but I'm afraid that if we want this cabal to be kept, we will have to delete the "Leaders" thing. -- Ha  dg  er  23:21, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete: although a but of fun here and there doesn't hurt, when it doesn't end, and starts degenerating into mindless chatting that in no way can aid the project, then it's just a nuisance. Although the goal of fighting vandalism is a good one, the level of chit-chat compared to the amount of vandal-fighting seems no different that if the cabal didn't exist at all.  Bramble  claw  x   21:25, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per Jubilee.--White Shadows you're breaking up 21:37, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete with extreme prejudice Yet more myspacey crap from the MMORPG fraternity and the wanabee hat collectors that have a surrealist belief being an admin on wikipedia means something. Pedro : Chat  22:01, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Was that directed towards anyone in particular Pedro?--White Shadows you're breaking up 22:42, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I wondered that too. Futhermore, what do you mean by "with extreme prejudice"?  That word suggests that you have formed an opinion without looking at the facts  --Jubilee♫ clipman  23:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Delete Sorry, but to me this page is nonsense. -- Nascar 1996  23:49, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Apology and Request I've looked over what I have written and what others have written, and I think that I agree with you all now. I can't believe that I was starting to be like that... Anyways, I would like to apologize for having turned this into a MySpace-ish thing, and if I seemed rude in what I said, I also apologize for that. I would like this to be deleted. There is one thing that I would like to know, though. Would it be possible to restore all of this to the way and place that it was before I moved it? With the exact same edit history, without any of the edits from the move on? I basically want to make it seem as if all of this never happened; make all of it, including the subpages and edit history for the pages, exactly the way that it was before. If that isn't possible, then could whoever deletes these try to make something as close to that as possible happen? Again, I apologize for what I turned this into, I won't let something like this happen again. Hi878 (talk) 00:50, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe this can be done with the oversight tool, however, they don't oversight things without good reason.  Bramble  claw  x   01:08, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I thought of that too, and came to the same conclusion that you did. :) There might be another way, though. Maybe... Hi878 (talk) 01:11, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Guess an admin could revert to this revision, or delete and restore only certain edits. Airplaneman   ✈  01:34, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, and the same thing could be done with the tag and message, and then all three could be moved back. However, I want this all out of the edit history, too. :) Hi878 (talk) 01:38, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I don't see what difference that would make. A permanent mark has been made on countless talk pages and this MfD. It's not like you did anything bad (not the best, either, but we all make mistakes - the key is to learn from them!) Airplaneman   ✈  01:47, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, whatever. I'll move the stuff back, the U1 the stuff left in my userspace. I just hope this whole thing doesn't come back to bite me in the future. :) Hi878 (talk) 01:56, 12 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Comment - Hi878 has requested speedy deletion of the cabal per CSD U1. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ message • changes) 02:31, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It's been deleted per CSD U1. ~ Nerdy Science Dude  (✉ message • changes) 02:33, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Not quite. :) I restored the original page, then moved it, and I had the redirect moved. But whatever. :) I suppose someone can close this now. Hi878 (talk) 02:36, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey, look I forgot two. I suppose I'll have those zapped, too. Hi878 (talk) 02:37, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.