Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:IsraelXKV8R/Sandbox


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the discussion was Delete as there is agreement that the page is unfit to become an encyclopedic article and Wikipedia is not an appropriate place to pursue alleged criminals, noting that the user has moved the content elsewhere and blanked the page. Tikiwont (talk) 13:30, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

User:IsraelXKV8R/Sandbox
Page is being used as personal webspace, including having a domain name pointed at it. There are also uncited BLP claims. I'm not convinced it's not speedyable as an attack page, but I think the community should take a look at it first. SarekOfVulcan (talk) 18:58, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, if evidence of attack is there then get rid of it on a speedy. Esteffect (talk) 19:02, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

IsraelXKV8R (talk) 19:04, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * DO NOT DELETE - this page is in progress. it has only been up for a week. when it is complete, i shall introduce it as a proper wikipedia page. until the page is complete, please let me use my sandbox for that which it is intended for: preparing pages for use in wiki.


 * STRONG KEEP - The fact of the matter is that the individual charged by the New York DA’s office, Raphael Golb, used Wikipedia through his multiple sockpuppet aliases (refer to User: Critical Reader). In other words, the alleged criminal behavior effected the editing of Wikipedia articles.  For this reason, the page has direct relevance for Wikipedia and the role of Wikipedia in our society.  The BLP claims can be debated and edited, but the page is definitely not an attack page. I see no reason to delete this page and every reason to keep it.    ''Em-jay-es  19:19, 7 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete - WP:BLP, WP:OR, WP:SYN, WP:SOAP, WP:NOT, etc etc ad nauseam. Kill it with fire. // roux   19:32, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Comment - OR and SYN policies don't really apply to non-article-space pages. Evercat (talk) 19:54, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * See comment above from IsraelXKV8R: "when it is complete, i shall introduce it as a proper wikipedia page." // roux   20:00, 7 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete: This is 100% WP:OR at this point, and will never qualify as an article in this form. Even if WP:OR didn't apply in userspace, having a domain name which points here clearly indicates that someone thinks it's ok to use Wikipedia as a webhost, but it's not.-- Versa geek  20:04, 7 March 2009 (UTC)


 * STRONG KEEP - This article is in a user's sandbox, and documents widespread abuse of the internet. Probably the request to delete is itself mendacious. Roger Pearse (talk) 20:45, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * CommentRoger, I really do not thin that the request to delete is mendacious. I agree that the information is important, but it simply does not belong here and that was my reaction as soon as Bob pointed to his sandbox. Bob's moving it shortly anyway, he's had a couple of suggestions of Wikis that can probably take it. I'm not sure if I should be glad or disappointed that I'm not on the list. :-) dougweller (talk) 07:44, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

That's curious, coming from someone who that the most important thing about editing WP is knowing how to game it...--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:55, 7 March 2009 (UTC) Struck.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:17, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * (ec) And it's all original research (not allowed, period), filled with violations of our policy on biographies of living persons (not allowed, period), using Wikipedia as a soapbox (not allowed), the vast majority of it is inherently not verifiable, and on and on and on. If it's intended to be an article, it needs to comply with the relevant policies. It doesn't, so.. // roux   21:01, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * After EC: SarekOfVulcan, ignore the slight, keep this focused on the page at hand please? // roux   21:01, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. Sorry.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:18, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete. Can't make head or tale of the page, but it serves no purpose to the project and may indeed be harmful (not sure). That means there is no benefit in keeping it, and possible harm in doing so.--Scott Mac (Doc) 21:02, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Keep - WP:BLP not violated as it does not point to a known person. There is plenty or Original Research, and may be a synthesis of other information, but being a user subpage does not apply.  Only when it is made an article is this of interest, and then the OR is removed rather than a reason to delete the article. It may also end up as something not for article space, but for project space. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:30, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * We don't allow people to keep available laundry lists on wikipedians. Laundry lists on non-wikiedians would be even worse.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 21:33, 7 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete. Dude, go get some web hosting. It's cheap. — Hex    (❝  ?!  ❞)   23:32, 7 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete per systematic violation of essentially every content policy we have, plus the user's stated intention to claim in the press that he "used Wikipedia to catch a criminal" (which is much worse, and a much better reason to delete it). — Gavia immer (talk) 04:42, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

http://sandiegojewishworld.com/2009-SDJW-Quarter1/20090308--jewish-sunday56.html#HARRISON IsraelXKV8R (talk) 06:36, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

The Purpose of This Page
i fully respect the rules of wiki. this is why i set up this page in my private sandbox. i am establishing a pattern of logged behavior and building a story. rather than use references, i am providing table after table and cross-linked lists of ip addresses and aliases, including confirmed wiki sockpuppets, to demonstrate the evidence that led the arrest of raphael golb. i am building the page. when i am finished, i shall fix the narrative, introduce it as an article, and turn you all loose on it.

the entire point of using wiki to log all this information is to show the power of wikipedia as a resource for the academy and for fighting crime. i am one of but a handful of scholars that believe in the technology and the mission of wikipedia. what better way to promote wiki than to show how it was used to catch a suspected felon? this is not original research, but quite the opposite - every single thing i list here is referenced with a link, title, source, and author. the purpose of the page is to be a clearing house for the activity of raphael golb, who was recently arrested by the ny district attorney's office.

i am trying to show the power of wikipedia, and i am building a future page in my private sandbox (where we are supposed to doodle and build) and some of you want to shoot yourselves in the foot. check the history. the page is very recently established. the purpose is to give credibility and validity to your hobby - wikipedia editing - and you want to delete it.

i strongly urge you to KEEP this page, at least for a while until i finish it. i have conferred with several wiki admins, many of whom may have been involved with the ny da's investigation. this is a chance to show how wiki is a credible resource. again, this is NOT original research, but is a collection of references.

STRONG KEEP IsraelXKV8R (talk) 22:17, 7 March 2009 (UTC) Dup vote--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 22:40, 7 March 2009 (UTC)


 * also, it is my intent to export this page to html. if you can provide me with an effective tool that converts wiki code into html (including the links), then i'll paste this into a proper website and be out of your hair and you all can go back to discussing the different lengths of light sabers and the various scoring strategies of quiddich. ideas?

think to yourself: how is wikipedia perceived? can it be an academic tool for research? can it be an effective tool for fighting crime? or is it where people who can't get published go to appear erudite? how do you want the world to perceive wikipedia? think about it. i'm trying to use wikipedia for good here. IsraelXKV8R (talk) 22:26, 7 March 2009 (UTC)


 * All that may be well and good, and may be good intentioned, but simply, Wikipedia isn't for that. And all namespaces should help (either directly or even indirectly) to develop the encyclopedia in some way. We tend to be more lenient with userspace because in general, it helps with morale and collaboration (among other things).


 * But, interesting as it may be from an observer's standpoint, this subpage doesn't provide even that.


 * I was thinking of directing you to Wikibooks, but I'm not sure that this would fall even under their purview.


 * I think at this point this should be DELETED. Though the text may be readily given to User:IsraelXKV8R upon request. (Though not to be used for recreation, obviously.)


 * I hope this helps. - jc37 22:42, 7 March 2009 (UTC)


 * i totally understand. i'm just trying to show the power of wikipedia. that's all. there will be a story shortly in the press that will highlight my use of wikipedia to catch a criminal. just trying to help the cause... IsraelXKV8R (talk) 23:35, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Tool for Export
i'll ask again. can anyone recommend a tool that allows me to export the wiki code into html and retain the links? thanx. IsraelXKV8R (talk) 23:34, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Right-click, view source?--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 03:26, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * you're kidding, that works???? and what's with the right-click thing? there are still pc users on earth?? ;-) thanx for the tip.  i'll give it a shot. if it works, i'll cut and paste, make like santa and leave your presents. seriously thanx. IsraelXKV8R (talk) 03:50, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Special:Export. Stifle (talk) 14:01, 9 March 2009 (UTC)


 * ATTENTION

i have created an html version of this page at:

http://www.who-is-charles-gadda.com

http://www.bobcargill.com/who-is-charles-gadda.html

i'd like to keep this page in my sandbox so that i can continue to use wiki to build this page. i'll redirect the url to the html page on http://www.bobcargill.com.

listen: this page is in my sandbox. i'm trying to use the sandbox for what i intended: to build a page. if we can't play in our sandbox, where can we build pages?

on another note, wiki users must ask themselves how credible they want to be. read the comments on my user page for my comments on this. wiki is a powerful tool, but it's full potential for scholars has not yet been realized. i hope for all of our sakes that wiki can become a credible tool in he eyes of the public and scholars (as well as profitable) before it is too late.

shalom IsraelXKV8R (talk) 08:20, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Er no, because you're building a page that cannot ever be a WP article, for all the many reasons outlined above. // roux   08:25, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete - Got nothing to do with the project. Looks like an advertisement of something. Versus22 talk 15:10, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, WP is not a web host. This belongs on a blog or a personal site; not on an encyclopedia. meshach (talk) 19:56, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete It is too dang close to being an attack page at the very least. I defend almost anything else in a sandbox to be sure. Collect (talk) 21:36, 8 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, a wiki is a powerful tool, but you can use or create other wikis for such non-wikipedia purposes. See Alternative outlets.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:36, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete, very clear violation of WP:NOT. Please get your own website. Stifle (talk) 14:01, 9 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Delete Wikipedia is not a free web host. I'm pretty sure that "The Use of Wikipedia as a Device for Logging the Misbehavior of Cyber-Bullies" is beoynd the scope of an encyclopedia. --DFS454 (talk) 08:54, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm Done With My Sandbox Prep
this page is now moot. content has been removed. see? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:IsraelXKV8R/Sandbox.

shalom - bobcargill IsraelXKV8R (talk) 23:56, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
 * That's blanking. The information is stll in the history. --DFS454 (talk) 08:55, 12 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Keep page has been blanked. History? .. not quite as sure - gets close to stalking, NPA - and exceeds notwebhost. — Ched ~ (yes?) 09:32, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * stalking? on whose part? you do realize that i was one of the victims of the suspected perpetrator, right? the aliases that smeared the father's opponents, one of those was me. this page helped catch an alleged criminal. we're not missing that, are we?? i blanked the page because i'm done with it. i moved it to my personal site. IsraelXKV8R (talk) 13:03, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.