Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:JohnnyReb1977/Proud Confederate

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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was:  delete. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 04:29, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

User:JohnnyReb1977/Proud Confederate

 * – (View MfD) &#8203;
 * Dronebogus (talk) 13:14, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Impossible to see as anything other than promotion of a racist state, or incredibly ignorant/denialist of that state’s atrocities. Note that the username would probably be a violation of policy as well (“Reb” as in rebel) if the user wasn’t inactive since 2018. Dronebogus (talk) 07:29, 28 August 2022 (UTC) Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Dronebogus (talk) 13:14, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Weak Keep - No, this really isn't that bad compared to some of the other stuff that got nominated last month. This is mere self-identification without attempts at stoking division or hatred. There's no further inferences or innuendo beyond that.--🌈WaltCip - (talk)  15:05, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Literally saying WP:OTHERSTUFF is not an argument. This is clearly stating the user is “proud” to identify with a nation founded on the belief that White people have the right to own Black people as chattel. Dronebogus (talk) 00:50, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Its not saying that though as the word "heritage" means: "a practice or set of values that is passed down from preceding generations through families or through institutional memory". This can be interpreted in a number of different ways both good and bad. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:14, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, in that case, we have a clear situation here. Nobody, beside neo-Confederates, can interpret the word "heritage" in a good way when it comes to this userbox. —Sundostund (talk) 16:26, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom. The nominated userbox clearly mention "Confederate heritage" and pride about it; therefore it is quite inflammatory and divisive, being obviously pro-CSA. If someone want to show how proud they are of their Southern heritage, there are non-controversial userboxes for that purpose – Template:User Southern, Template:User Southern2, User:Rogue 9/Userboxes/CSA denied – and some others as well, I'm sure. No one should be allowed to promote their pro-CSA views, disguised as concern for "tradition" and "heritage". —Sundostund (talk) 18:41, 28 August 2022 (UTC)
 *  Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.


 * Weak Keep per . The issue still seems to be unresolved if black descendants had ancestors that proudly served in the confederacy. Since I'm not seeing anything divisive here, I don't see how it would impact the encyclopedia. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 16:56, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Delete as per the arguments presented in WP:NORACISTS and WP:HATESPEECH. The Confederate battle flag has been identified as a hate symbol by the Anti-Defamation League, National Geographic, and the State of New York, among others. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 04:44, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * This could easily be fixed by replacing the flag with File:Flag of the Confederate States of America (1861–1863).svg. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 12:59, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I can't see how other Confederate flags could be acceptable. The problem isn't just about the battle flag, but about the pride someone is feeling for being connected to a state built on Slave Power and pure racism. —Sundostund (talk) 16:10, 6 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree, using an obscure symbol that means the same thing is a classic extremist tactic. Dronebogus (talk) 17:30, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
 * It actually reminds me of the tactic of German Neo-Nazis, who use the Flag of the German Empire at their rallies (as can be seen here), instead of the Flag of Nazi Germany, which is banned in modern Germany. —Sundostund (talk) 00:31, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I thought the exact same thing Dronebogus (talk) 00:43, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Although, IMHO, there are more than enough reasons to extend the ban to the Imperial flag as well, not just the Swastika flag... —Sundostund (talk) 00:47, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Again per the source I used, history isn't clear on the matter. There may very well be some African Americans out there that took traditions from the confederacy totally unrelated to slavery. People in general like to think of history as either this or that, I provided a source which comes straight from the American Civil War Museum. I would think historians from there did the needed research. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 21:52, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
 * With all due respect, I find it highly unlikely that there are African Americans who may see the Confederacy in some way that exclude slavery. Even for white people, its not easy (or not possible at all) to separate the Confederacy from its foundations on Slave Power. —Sundostund (talk) 21:58, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm just trying to look at this from a historical perspective. There are alot of traditions and crafts that African Americans brought over with them when they were in the South. I'd like to assume the best in editors who would use this template. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 22:07, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I understand your point. I just want to avoid situations where "historical perspective", "tradition" and "heritage" are bywords for pro-Confederate sentiment, and convenient tools for defending racism. No matter how much I myself want to assume the best in editors, it would be very hard to do that with those who use this userbox, and similar ones. —Sundostund (talk) 22:31, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.