Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Knowledgebattle/projects/Christian Republican corruption

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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was  speedy deleted by author request. Ricky81682 (talk) 09:23, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

User:Knowledgebattle/projects/Christian Republican corruption


Despite my reporting this to BLPN it's been ignored. Matt Bevin's article doesn't accuse him of lying or corruption. If the editor wishes to compile information to be used to attack individuals or parties/religions, Wikipedia isn't an appropriate place. Doug Weller talk 10:35, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * To be explicit, calling the Governor of Kentucky a liar is a clear BLP violation. The editor in question (under a 72 hour block expiring in a few hours) seems to think BLP doesn't apply to subpages. Doug Weller  talk 11:05, 4 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Delete for BLP issues and WP:SOAPBOX. Sourced, so G10 does not apply. In the diff provided, the editor erroneously claims OWNership of this page. BLP explicitly does apply in userspace (WP:BLPTALK): Editor should be directed to WP:Alternative outlets for this sort of thing. A2soup (talk) 12:32, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete, combined WP:POLEMIC unrelated to Wikipedia, WP:NOR, BLP violating which applies in any namespace. The editor may be confusing Wikipedia policy WP:BLP with Free speech and what may be legally said.  Wikipedia is very far more cautious than what is allowed legally.  Definitely WP:Alternative outlets.  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 13:31, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Delete, WP:POLEMIC is probably the best argument. It is well sourced (multiple reliable news sources and notable people have outright labelled him a liar) but it is highly unlikely to make it into the Bevin article. Only in death does duty end (talk) 12:02, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Keep, just follow and look at the sources. :-\ Also, as User:Only in death points out, On the Issues, Matt Bevin Lies on Tape and DYCHE | Bevin is Kentucky's Trump both call him a "liar". Also, in my subpage, I don't call him a "liar", but acknowledge that he has a problem with "lying". This page acts as my referential documentation. KnowledgeBattle | TalkPage | GodlessInfidel ┌┬╫┴┼╤╪╬╜ 00:17, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe. Possibly the problem can be fixed by editing.  I think WP:BLP provides advice.  I think the advice is along the lines that negative statements, like "liar", should be used only in direct quotes explicitly and reliably references, and only where pertinent. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:28, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Per your suggestion, I've edited the article to "allegations of lying". => A2soup, Only in death, Doug Weller, and SmokeyJoe, is the updated wording sufficient to change your minds (and by extension, your votes), or enough to withdraw this nomination for deletion? KnowledgeBattle | TalkPage | GodlessInfidel ┌┬╫┴┼╤╪╬╜ 02:21, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * It's sort of a hard thing. The material for the most part probably can't go in the article for BLP reasons, but collecting it all in one place makes it a purely negative page, which is the problem. But you also can't just copy the article to your userspace with the preferred info added. It would be okay if you just collected links I guess. The best solution is to just keep track of this stuff on your computer and not Wikipedia's servers - is there some reason that doesn't work? A2soup (talk) 02:40, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I started installing a Wiki on my Ubuntu drive, but didn't go through with it. I could do that, instead. But yea, it is a negative page, since if it were all positive, there wouldn't be any controversy, and all the information would have already been added to their page. Since I wouldn't want to create "Category:" on Wikipedia and add that label, I chose to create subpages, to serve as my own version of a "category". There are lots of "tribal" people, who think that political/religious labels exempt them from [fill in the blank]. KnowledgeBattle | TalkPage | GodlessInfidel ┌┬╫┴┼╤╪╬╜ 03:16, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * It's not as hard as installing a Wiki, you can just keep track of this sort of thing in a word document or something. Or do you mean that you intend this page to inform other people and not just be your personal workspace? A2soup (talk) 03:18, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * "Tribal people"? Your own version of a category? This does sound like more than just your own personal workspace, especially as you seem to be suggesting it isn't going to be added to an article. Maybe that explains User:Knowledgebattle/articles/6,000,000 Jews - I can't figure out any justification for that in userspace or anywhere on Wikipedia. Doug Weller  talk 07:01, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Your problem is that you can't ever stick to a topic. You come across as scatterbrained. If you want to talk about a certain topic, then talk about that topic. If you want to talk about User:Knowledgebattle/articles/6,000,000 Jews, then go to the Talk Page for that, and talk about it. You did the same thing on all of the other discussions I've had with you, which is why you and I are unable to hold an intelligent discussion.
 * Yes, there are lots of "tribal" people. You sound offended by that word? There are people who loyally identify as "Republicans" and "Democrats" (tribes), and because they're so loyal to a certain brand name (such as their political or religious ideologies), they are unable to admit when a fault occurs among someone in their "tribe". Sorry for using the word "tribe", but I acknowledge that humans are animals. Another word for "tribe" is also "herd". Humans are social animals, and form tribes/herds, based upon who agrees with them. People identify who they are based upon who agrees with them, and so that they can identify "others" (eg. "Donald Trump using undocumented Mexican immigrants" or "Muslim refugees" to play to people's fears). This isn't just my opinion, this is an aspect of human psychology. Tribalism.
 * KnowledgeBattle | TalkPage | GodlessInfidel ┌┬╫┴┼╤╪╬╜ 08:35, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation of 'tribal', that makes sense. I'm not offended by it, just wondering what you meant. I am sticking to the topic, which is this subpage and now your use of subpages in general. Why you are unable to hold an intelligent conversation with me, a person whose shares a lot of beiefs/povs whatever with you, is perhaps interesting but not germane here. Responding to your statement below about being "side research", that's not what user pages are for. See WP:UPNOT. "Wikipedia is not a general hosting service, so your user page is not a personal website. Your user page is about you as a Wikipedian, and pages in your user space should be used as part of your efforts to contribute to the project." You've agreed they (plural)aren't there to contribute to Wikipedia. Your "6 million" page falls under WP:POLEMIC " statements attacking or vilifying groups of editors, persons, or other entities (these are generally considered divisive and removed, and reintroducing them is often considered disruptive" - it's clearly there to make a point and would certainly be seen as some as divisive. And the subpage under discussion and others fall under WP:BLPTALK "Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced and not related to making content choices should be removed, deleted, or oversighted, as appropriate." Doug Weller  talk 09:00, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I see. I hadn't ever read WP:UPNOT, prior to you pointing it out, but you're right; the subpages do fall under that. For that reason, I'll remove all of them. Also, "6 million" wasn't ever intended to be WP:POLEMIC (vilifying or divisive) – but you can be damned sure I was aghast when I came across those in research, and so I used the page like a notepad. Since subpages are WP:UPNOT, I will remove all the unnecessary subpages. KnowledgeBattle | TalkPage | GodlessInfidel ┌┬╫┴┼╤╪╬╜ 03:43, 7 April 2016 (UTC)


 * User:Knowledgebattle, can you explain how these pages will contribute to the encyclopedia, or how they support you contributing to the encyclopedia?  --SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:17, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * At this point, they're not intended to be used to contribute to the encyclopedia. Maybe one day, they will; but for now, they're side research. KnowledgeBattle | TalkPage | GodlessInfidel ┌┬╫┴┼╤╪╬╜ 08:35, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.