Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim Fan/Wikipedia Welcome Squad


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.  

The result of the debate was no consensus. This was a tough one to close. Both sides of the arguments were strong, yet didn't convince me to dismiss the other side's arguments. The community seems quite divided on this, and perhaps the only way for it to be remedied is for this squad to work for a while and see how it does. Those that wanted this kept I would hope would look at what the delete voters said to improve this. I really can't close this as anything other than no consensus. Wizardman 16:07, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

User:Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim Fan/Wikipedia Welcome Squad
For the reasons that often come up in why a welcome bot will likely (I've learnt never to say never) never be approved, see Bots/Requests for approval/Welcomebot for one such discussion as well as reasons that came up in this recent MfD. Welcoming should be done out of a genuine interest/interaction with a new user, not as a quest for a barnstar. Also using a certain format "to qualify as welcoming, you must use this format. Copy and paste the following..." feels templated and disallows for the sometimes need to tailor the message based on the situation (as Twinkle, among others, allow). This in no way builds an encyclopedia and just serves to foster the desire for editcountitis, social MySpace, etc. Thoughts? TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 00:03, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Duplicate function of Welcoming committee with extra red tape, plus it smacks of making WP a game. Delete. &mdash; Lomn 00:14, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

'''Note that the above !vote is the creator of the subpage. --RyRy5 (talk ) 00:16, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * KEEP My page is meant to make sure EVERY user is welcomed. I often myself look at the user creation log and see many users unwelcomed. Ths means many users are not getting help and experience. My plan is to organize the welcomers. I can make the welcome marks harder to get, but I see welcoming as a productive member of Wikipedia editing. If it weren't for a user's good template and kindness, I wouldn't have even known of adoption. I find welcoming productive, and I'm sure other users think so, too. As it says earlier on this page, there ISN'T a bot for welcoming. Therefore, it is up to users. My templates and ideas should be worthwhile, and I don't see why exactly this page would possibly be put up for deletion. I am currently trying to expand, but if the page gets deleted, my ideas would not be given a chance to show it's potential. I have a logo, a template, challenges, and a userbox currently for the cause. This clearly shows that 1. I put effort into the project and 2. I take this page seriously. I don't see any reason why this page would possibly be put up for deletion. If I can't change Wikipedia for the better, shouldn't it be called "The encyclopedia anyone can delete". I'm sorry for my temper, but I am trying to get this project off the ground, and some user wants it deleted.--LAA Fan 00:15, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete We already have the Welcoming Committee. And I'm a little concerned about how they want to welcome every new user. It seems a little like Editcountitis. I'm also concerned about the barnstar give away portion of it. --RyRy5 (talk ) 00:16, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Neutral I think it is good for helping out, but I just can't !vote a full keep. Neutral for now.--RyRy5 (talk  ♠ wikify ) 00:11, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Another note I can change the page. It is NOT set in stone. If there is something needing to be change, TELL ME instead of deleting. Another thing, is, my page is more friendly than the original one, so maybe more users would sign up for my project.--LAA Fan 00:20, 20 May 2008 (UTC) The apparent creator of the subpage
 * Erm, you do know that the Welcoming Committee is in project space and it has over 500 members, right?--RyRy5 (talk ) 00:24, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment - This partially came up in the recent deletion campaign for the award center. Including editcountitis in the discussion, this boosts the number of edits in "user talk space", which really doesn't help the inexperienced users. Basketball110 My story/Tell me yours 00:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Cleanup - It shouldn't be a merger between WP:WC and WP:AWC. It should be something different. If LAAFan can think up somehow to tweak this, then it works out. Basketball110 My story/Tell me yours 01:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Move? KEEP Oh boy, I was trying to help out my adoptee (LAA) by encouraging him to edit outside his userspace. When I saw this project he had created, I took the opportunity to "join" it. Could we make it into an adoption page so It will be me and my adoptee working together? I'll move it to a suitable page if agreed. I agree now with Nk.sheridan's unique comment. It's helped wikipedians have an easier start. Over 150 to be exact. So what if it's a "copy"! Best wishes <font color="slategray" face="">Wiki <font color="navy" face="">Zorro sign 00:40, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * If my position as adopter seems too biased on this matter, let me know. I am being stretched by two sides right now. <font color="slategray" face="">Wiki <font color="navy" face="">Zorro sign 19:53, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment: what here exists that's worth preserving with a move? If you want to work with LAAAF on some sort of adopter/adoptee page, I think that's fine -- but I think you're better served starting from scratch with a deliberate adopter/adoptee effort. &mdash; Lomn 02:50, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Move Hmmm. I think WikiZorro's idea could work. I just don't want to see this project die quickly--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 00:43, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom and per Lomm. Dupicative of other established avenues for greeting new users, doesn't seem necessary. <font color="#21421E" face="comic sans ms">Keeper   |  <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">76   |  <font color="#ff0000"> Disclaimer  00:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Final Thoughts I believe it would be possible to tweak it. I wanted to say this, so nobody goes on and deletes it over night. I'll have the ideas to present sometime tomorrow.--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 04:09, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment no one is going to delete it overnight, it's not speedyable. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 04:33, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep Doesn't seem to violate anything, and while it is a bit repetitive with the Welcoming Committee, no one says we have to do such things exactly the same way. -- Ned Scott 04:16, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment but do we need multiple things that do the same? One with 500 users that's established. I don't think so, that along with the issues I raised in the nom are wht concern me. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 04:33, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Do we need any page that welcomes users? No. Does having two pages disrupt or get in the way of anything? No. One size does not fit all. -- Ned Scott 00:01, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep as proactive means of spreading kindness and encouragement as well as useful links to new users. Considering how many new users we gain practically every moment, there's almost always someone needing welcoming.  I would suggest keeping in mind, however, that we should not just use one default welcome and that we keep in mind the difference between registered users, IPs, and vandals.  Sincerely, --<font face="Times New Roman"> Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles  Tally-ho! 04:38, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * More commentsHmmmm, I see that 2 users want is kept. However, there are other users, including a possibly soon to be admin, so I shall go forward with the blueprints for my plan. I will make a sample page using a sandbox, but here is my idea summarized.
 * Still be called Wikipedia Welcome Squad
 * My idea would have new users going through the practices.
 * Have 3 points of Welcoming- Welcoming, Editing Practice, and Bells and Whistles Practice
 * Point 1 would be welcoming users. Not one standard template for welcoming, but one is very helpful. No barnstar rewards column. Point 1 would not involve the new users.
 * Point 2 would be Editing Practice. This is on basic facts. There would be two ways to do this for users going through the program; Asking a special committee, where responses will be quick. The difference between the help desk is the committee would be experienced users. For example, I would not be on the commitee because I am not experienced. The other choice is the new users fill out a short form (about 5 questions about their intentions on Wikipedia) and we pair them up with an adoptor who has similar views.
 * Point 3 would be optional. The plan would be for the users to be done with point 2, now looking to get the little things on Wikipedia. There would be a few users controlling this point, where the new users can learn about little things that might not be known by the new users. (example- Admin coaching)

What do you think? If there is any confusion, there would be a squad participant page, and another for new users signing up. The page can be moved wherever. My only request would be to get recognized as the founder of the Squad. Just a little sentence at the top, like the current page. --<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 14:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I think you're still duplicating existing (and vastly higher-profile) functionality to no end except self-recognition, which I find telling. Frankly, I'd like to hear a lot more how instead of what.  In this proposal I see duplication well-established content at WP:WELCOME, WP:HELP, WP:Introduction, WP:ADOPT, and the guidance at WP:ADMIN.  What I don't see is any proposed benefit or improvement beyond a "committee" that is better and faster than the Help Desk, though for no apparent reason.  Finally, the proposal reaches a point at which it's wholly unrecognizable as related to the current WWS page except for (1) the name and (2) the "founded by" line.  Admin coaching, for instance, is completely outside the realm of welcoming new users.
 * Here, then, is my counter-proposal: Contribute to and benefit the project as it exists now rather than trying to re-invent the wheel. As best I can tell, everything you want to work with here already exists and is already active with people who can help you with your own growth on Wikipedia.  &mdash; Lomn 15:08, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly, Lomn, and I think you were more concise than I was. It exists and while it isn't perfect, there's no reason to duplicate. Instead use your ideas to discuss and establish consensus for improvements to the existing programs. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 15:47, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

- - *2. Put users through a gauntlet- to show if they really want to contribute to Wikipedia. - - *3. Help users in guiding them through not only editing, but the bells and whistles of Wikipedia. - - *4. Asking a select group of users, so if one user can't help, another user can, instead of adoption. Users asked also don't have to ask other editors about the questions if they don't know it. - - *5. Making sure users are welcomed. There is already a page, BUT, there are many users joining Wikipedia. Is look in the user creation log, and I see about 2 out of 25 new users welcomed. - - *As for the how question, what do you mean by how? Please explain - - *The comment wasn't really meant for you, but your quick repsonce questions my thoughts about drones. --<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 22:47, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Vote You know what, I want a vote. There are some users trying to contribute, but others are just Wikidrones and are just looking to delete pages. I see users in this discussion rejecting everything. So tell me this, will you accept anything? I do NOT (yes, I'm going back to big letters) want to contribute as a drone, but rather and a creative editor. --<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 22:32, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not a drone, LAA, but thanks for that. I don't !vote "delete" for everything I see.  You're program, while obviously well intentioned, is too duplicative of existing programs.  Go work with the existing programs!  It seems the only reason you're trying to get this kept is because you want your name on the top as attribution. That's not a good enough reason, IMO.  <font color="#21421E" face="comic sans ms">Keeper   |  <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">76   |  <font color="#ff0000"> Disclaimer  22:42, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not about voting. Are you taking the discussion here to heart?  Gainfully integrating yourself with the community is not equivalent to becoming a drone. &mdash; Lomn 22:43, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, now I'm going to lose my temper. No voting? That just shows how mindless you are! This shows you don't want a avote, because it's only a few users looking for power. As far as I know, none of you against the project are admins, so the level of power is the same.
 * My answers to q's. The idea is to put some new users through a system, rather than having users being welcomed, and then forced to walk alone. It is called the Wikipedia Welcoming Squad, because, although welcoming isn't all of it, the term welcoming is also to mean to welcome as in train them to be a productive editor. Here are the benefits. - - *1. Help from experienced users, not ones helping just to receive awards.
 * I also see no users have answered my question of what do you want.--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 22:50, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I get what you're saying LAA. Please don't lose your temper.  I know you've put a lot of work into this.  But your system already exists elsewhere in different forms.  The "other" places it exists need more help. What about revising an existing system instead of creating a new one that does essentially the same thing?  (and, I am an admin, and I'm against this...however, that does not mean I have "more power" or anything like that.  This debate will be closed fairly based on the discussion, not based on who contributes to it)  <font color="#21421E" face="comic sans ms">Keeper   |  <font color="#CC7722" face="Papyrus">76   |  <font color="#ff0000"> Disclaimer  22:51, 20 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, I'm sorry for those comments. I've once again cooled down. I want to be creative, but, if needed, I could revise the existing. But can I do that? I thought I couldn't. Is it only with permission or something? Even if the page gets deleted, I guess I have learned something.<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 22:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia evolves, from a policy standpoint, through discussion and consensus-building. Absolutely nothing prohibits you from working to revise existing procedures.  However, it's a very good idea to first be active in and conversant with what you're trying to change.  Try to understand why things are the way they are before boldly editing a policy to how it should be.  &mdash; Lomn 23:41, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep If the page results in just one new editor receiving a helpful welcome message then I think it is useful for wikipedia. <font style="background: #C0C0C0" face="Times New Roman" color="#0047AB">Nk.sheridan   <font style="background: #F0F8FF" face="Times New Roman" color="#708090">Talk  23:08, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Keep, not sure why this user is being forced to go through this for trying to help the project, we should be helping not hindering. Thanks, SqueakBox 00:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * My opinions have again changed I guess. Users are signing up for the project, with 5 already. This shows the potential and how valuable it can be. I can retool the page, but I really want to keep the page, especially when other users want it.--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 02:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I now have 6 users overalll in the project. This has to show how valuable it can be. It is longer just me fighting, there are five other users that are willing to fight with me.<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 14:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * CommentDrama is definitely not needed. There's no need to 'fight'. Oh and there are, as said above, 500 in the other. It's still un-necessary duplication as has been said. No need for a revolution. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 15:08, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't really try to go for drama, but okay. And if the current commitee were working productively, the user creation log wouldn't be full of red links. --<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 21:20, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * So Fix It, work together. Don't re-invent the wheel TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 21:34, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete we don't need this, because we have already the Welcoming committee. Macy (Review me!) 21:33, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm supporting this project. I not be PC, but please don't pick at my comments (ex. no drama). I'm trying to be creative not a Wikidrone (No, I don't mean you, Keeper76). I'm sorry, but there are 6 total that have joined the project, and 4 that are against it, so I think this process should be sped up. If the page is kept, I would still lose valuable time on the page. I also have trouble with users that ARE Wikidrones. I'm sorry, but Lomn's comments (see talk page) are neither kind nor helpful. This was one of the reasons I don't contribute to the Infosphere anymore, and I don't take these comments lightly or forgivingly.--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 23:50, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I've also noticed 1. Nobody said anything when I asked about editing the original page and 2. Nobody has still responded to my question of what is acceptable. I'm sorry, but I feel this process will move quicker if users are helpful, not wanting to down other users while trying to put themselves up.--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 23:53, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what, exactly, you asked about "editing the original page". I'll note that I think removing the countfest barnstar section is an improvement, though.
 * "What is acceptable?" is far too broad to be answered here. I feel your critics have been clear, though, about the problems seen with the current incarnation as well as the problems with the various proposals floated on this page.  Are there particular points you'd like me (or someone else) to clarify? &mdash; Lomn 00:06, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Since it's in the userspace, I'm be inclined to say no harm done, but it seems awfully bureaucratic (requiring approval to use a different welcome template?). also, we shouldn't "welcome every new user" - we should wait until they start contributing. Template:WWS should be userfied. if these issues were addressed, then I'd say there's no harm in keeping it. xenocidic ( talk ¿ review ) 00:21, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As I commented earlier, it boosts user talk space edits. If the users want to do this, then let this. Keep. <font color="#FF8C00" face="Elephant">Basketball110 My story/Tell me yours 01:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What do you mean about the issues needing to be addressed. As i've said, the page isn't set in stone, so please let me know how to tweak it. I did go kind of crazy with the reward portion, so I did delete it, as an example. I think the page will go under a revision. I'm still thinking about part of my idea. I think the Squad could also put adoptees with suitable adoptors, from a short test. The new users wouldn't be forced to be adopted, but a link to the test if they want other users to set them up.--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 03:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Again, already exists in more stable form at WP:ADOPT. I do not believe you have sufficient WP experience to be overseeing an adoption process.  If you want to raise awareness of adoption, though, why not just add a link to your welcoming template? &mdash; Lomn 12:43, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think I will. The adoption thing doesn't make it the welcoming squad anymore. I do already have the adoption link on the template, but I think I can tweak the template.--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 14:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You asked about the issues needing to be addressed, to reiterate, they are: 1) bureaucracy (don't demand users seek approval to use a different welcome template) 2) don't welcome every user, only those that have begun to contribute (so many user accounts are created that never edit, thus you would be creating countless user talk pages which never get used again and 3) userfy the Template:WWS. xenocidic ( talk ¿ review ) 14:17, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay. I got rid of the first one. I will soon put in the second rule. As for the 3rd, I didn't make the userbox, so I will ask my adoptor.--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 14:45, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete - Redundant with the Welcoming Committee, however, I would have no problem with this if it was, for example, a welcoming committee for a Wikiproject, but it is a single user's venture (it was started by one user), and is unpopulated (only 6 people including the founder were members when I checked). In addition, the Welcoming Committee is more well-equipped with things such as the New Contributor's Help Desk, and is a more coordinated effort.  -- FastLizard4  (Talk•Index•Sign) 17:18, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe all of my concerns were addressed, I would say again no harm done as long as the "adoption" part is dropped (just work with WP:AAU]). (though I still don't see any value-add over and above the WP:Welcoming committee). xenocidic ( talk ¿ review ) 20:42, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * My tally so far I made a short tally of users opinions. Not as a vote, but as a helpful list for user's opinions so far.
 * Keep LAAFan, WikiZorro, Ned Scott, Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles, Nk.sheridan, SqueakBox, Basketball110 Total:7
 * Delete TravellingCari, Lomn, Keeper 76, Macy, FastLizard4, Richard0612 Total:6
 * Neutral RyRy5, xenocidic Total:2
 * Comment Hello. If this MfD nom is decided as keep, I will watch WWS incase of anything not necessary such as encouraging editcountitis a bit too far. If the WWS goes too far, I may report it someplace. Thank you. -- <font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">RyRy5 (<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">talk  ♠ <font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">copy-edit ) 23:57, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
 * CommentIf the page is deleted, I am interested in what you mean about welcoming for a Wikiproject. Please explain. I could just do that....--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 14:27, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think FastLizard4 is suggesting that if you were involved in a WikiProject (say, WikiProject Pokémon), you might want to craft a welcome template for users joining the WikiProject. It's probably fair to state that a good many people sign up for such projects without getting a lot of feedback on what, particularly, the project's about and how it works.  Again, though, participation on your part should be a prerequisite.  Explaining WikiProject Pokémon if you haven't worked with it for a while will naturally be problematic. &mdash; Lomn 14:33, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I was just curious. If I did do one, I would ask first, and I would go with something I know better (ex. WikiProject Baseball)--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 15:40, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Arbitrary section break

 * Delete - Duplication of the Welcoming Committee, it is better to have one central project than lots of variations. If that doesn't seem to be active/working, then raise a thread at the Village Pump asking for participants. Also, I think that it is probably best to wait until a new user actually makes an edit before welcoming them, rather than welcoming them 'as soon as they walk through the door' so to speak. <small style="font:bold 12px Trebuchet MS;display:inline;padding:1px 6px 2px 7px;"><font color="#630">RichardΩ612  Ɣ ɸ 17:49, May 23, 2008 (UTC)
 * Delete We don't need a volunteer-powered version of Welcomebot. Mechanically welcoming users for no reason does not really help the encyclopedia (otherwise we would just code the welcome page on the user account creation), and it's deviating volunteer's time from improving the encyclopedia. Also, there is already a Welcoming_Committee doing a similar task, but which has less bureaucracy and has reserves about doing mechanical welcomings. This just looks an attempt to avoid those reserves and implement Welcomebot for no good reason. --Enric Naval (talk) 15:20, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment There are eight members of the project, but those two newcomers didn't put their opinions on this page. With more users joining, the society is becoming larger. I am trying on the WWC, but responses on the talk page are long awaited. The truth is, the more users that join, the more I will be pushing for the project. Tallies so far are 7 for, 7 against, and 2 neutral.--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 20:26, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
 * LAA: I don't think you understand how MFD works. It's not the number of votes that count, it's the quality and logic of the users' arguments that eventually decides if the page is kept or deleted.  For example, let's say the Main Page was nominated for deletion, and 100,000 people said delete, but 1 person said Keep and gave a better reason than those who wanted it deleted, it would be kept.  So, here, you could have thousands of people voting keep, but if the administrator who eventually reviews this thinks that the 7 that have delete arguments have better arguments, the page will be deleted.  That's why these "votes" are commonly referred to as "!votes", or not-votes.  -- FastLizard4  (Talk•Index•Sign) 06:30, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
 * As I had said before, my tallies are not for a vote, but rather a tally of the discussion so far. I have gotten slack for this earlier, so please read my first tally. The tally is mainly for me, but I might as well add it.--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 14:22, 25 May 2008 (UTC)


 * KEEP I find this project to be quite useful for welcoming new comers and making them feel noticed. Prom3th3an (talk) 15:24, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I want a statistic on how many sockfarms have been welcomed by this project :D --Enric Naval (talk) 21:59, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * My final opinions and reasons why the squad should be kept. I know that a decision must be made about the project. Here are my final benefits for keeping the project


 * 1) Another welcoming squad. I'm sorry, but the Welcoming Commitee is not working to capacity. This squad would change the red links in the user creation log
 * 2) Encourages users to join. I find this squad as a friendlier version of WWC
 * 3) Open to change. If something needs to be changed by Wikipedia policy, I would be glad to change the page, instead of having it deleted.
 * 4) Looked over by experienced users. RyRy5 has confirmed, if kept, he would look over the squad.
 * 5) Lets users be creative. I would be open to other users expanding the page for the good.
 * 6) Would look over new user's edits. If they are vandalism accounts, the users would be reported quickly.

If I think of more, I'll post them, but these are my benefits for keeping the squad. Hope anyone looking at the page at least considers these benefits.--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 22:50, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I have looked at them, and here are my thoughts:
 * 1. So fix it! Fixing is the solution, not dulplication. Also applies to number 4. Plus not every editor should be welcomed as has been said above.
 * 3. No offense to RyRy5, but he's not the most experienced editor and would not necessarily bring it down the right path.
 * I know you mean well but as I and a number of others above have said, it's duplication of an existing program with no evidence it wouldn't also become broken. TravellingCarithe Busy Bee 23:30, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Another concern has come to mind, if kept, the word "Wikipedia" should be dropped from the name, to ensure it is not erroneously thought to be an official entity. xenocidic (talk) 23:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What if, instead of dropping Wikipedia from the name, put a note at the top after the beginning, stating that the squad isn't an official Wikipedia page. I'm going to change it, with maybe a few other things, right now.--<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 01:52, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That wouldn't alleviate my concern, no. I can't think of any other non-official organizations that carry "Wikipedia" in their title. xenocidic (talk) 01:54, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Reply to Travellingcari Non-taken. And for one thing, I never said I was "experienced" LAAFan. I just would watch the page incase it goes too far such as editcountitis. --<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">RyRy5 (<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">talk ) 04:33, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I know. I just automatically think of you as experienced because of all the help you give me. --<font color="navy" face="Times New Roman">LAA <font color="#ff0000" face="Times New Roman">Fan 14:16, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I presonally trust RyRy to give the project members good advice about avoiding editcountitis --Enric Naval (talk) 14:28, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Responses to LAA's six points:


 * 1) Some users should not be welcomed, you don't welcome every user in the creation log, only users that actually make an edit (this has been pointed out above)
 * 2) I don't see much difference, just a template that, in fact, points to resources created by/for the Welcoming Committee
 * 3) There is not too much to change without defeating the reason you created this project. See WP:ESP and related deletion debates for further information about this.  This applies especially due to the "quizzes" and "tournaments" that you talk about on the WWS page.
 * 4) It has already been said, and I will not repeat it. In addition, this isn't really a quality that moves the "status" of the project one way or the other, case in point Wikipedia itself.  Sure, we have good administrators watching over the project, but just because of that dosen't mean that every school in the country will suddenly prefer Wikipedia to a paper-and-ink encyclopedia
 * Umm, that is sort of the point of having a wiki in the first place, so that anyone can edit and improve it, so number 5 is mostly useless argument, but at least we know that you won't cover the project in red tape
 * 1) Recent Changes Patrol, those who use tools such as Huggle, VandalProof, and the Anti-Vandal tool, generally take care of the vandals. This is because most of these tools allow for very rapid checking and reporting of users, and checking the contribs of a user for vandalism is pretty much implied as a perquisite to anything, like getting rollback or accountcreator rights

Again, these are specific responses to the six points that LAA brought up higher above these counterpoints on this page. However, I agree with xenocidic, if the final result of this debate is keep, Wikipedia should be removed from the project's name, as it is not an official WikiProject. -- FastLizard4 (Talk•Index•Sign) 00:31, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.