Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:OmniMaster/North vs South wrestling tournament

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 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was Keep. Spartaz Humbug! 17:40, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

User:OmniMaster/North vs South wrestling tournament
Appears to be a promotional page to advertise an upcoming (eventually) wrestling tournament. This main contributors (one IP and one registered user) have no other edits besides creating this. Fails WP:PROMOTION and/or WP:MYSPACE. Matt Deres (talk) 03:03, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per WP:Notability.  Kayau  Voting  IS   evil 13:11, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep - OK, I guess we should give him time to finish up the work, which still needs lots of tweaks.  Kayau  Voting  IS   evil 01:14, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom.  Hi 8 7 8   (Come yell at me!) 16:49, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete per nom.   Snotty Wong   soliloquize 22:36, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep per WP:Notability_(sports) and for historic change in a sport. I can see where I needed some editing with some of my terminology that could imply a positive bias. I accomplished some of that. Indeed, this User Page needs much more editing before it can be published as a regular article. This is my first article and it will probably take all Summer for me to be satisfied with it. But, this legitimate article has become my excuse to get involved as an amatuer editor. Like many people; I'm a big fan of Wiki, I have many interests, and I would like to put my two-research-centered-cents in on many subjects. I believe that Wiki is accomplishing exactly what the internet was conceptualized to do. That said, the subject of my first page has something to offer Wikipedia. Concerning the format of the tournament, coaches all over the country will mimic its revolutionary scheme for pairing matches. I won't write it in my article, but it does generate a uniquly climactic spectacle. Secondly, it will be a very noted rivalry. Lastly, about the (eventually) comment, I noted that on Wiki, there are many "upcoming" events that are reported... from the 2014 FIFA World Cup to UFC 121. Even though I have interests other than wrestling, my second article will probably be about The California H.S. State Championships... like the National High School Rugby Tournament or the Minnesota high school boys hockey. Please allow me to work on this article. I will be getting some more relevant references and I promise to get the Wiki-Community's approval before I attempt to publish it as a Regular Article. OmniMaster (talk) 03:08, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Note, OmniMaster, that there are no professional editors so everyone are amateurs. :) Mind you, that doesn't mean one can't draw a line between novice and experienced editors.  Kayau  Voting  IS   evil 11:24, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Note, also, that the high-school related articles do not concern specific events, but rather longstanding sports as a whole (Minnesota) and a tournament that has run for nearly 90 years (rugby). The FIFA and UFC events are prima facie notable as they have been confirmed from multiple reliable sources and are also part of long-standing sporting events. I've been going through WP:NSPORT and WP:ATHLETE to see if this could qualify somehow and I just don't see how it could match any of the criteria there. However, those guidelines are written more in terms of notability of athletes rather than athletic events and are "just" guidelines, so I could be convinced otherwise. Matt Deres (talk) 13:51, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I still havn't wrote about how the tournament came to exist. Joe Stevenson is the founder of the tournament and will be coaching the Southern All-Star Team. He had a debate with another prominant UFC Fighter who went to a high school in Northern California at a UFC event. Due to that argument, Stevenson stumbled into the invention of a new format for tournament competition... as he felt compelled to prove a point to the other fighter (unnamed at this time). The other fighter might be coaching the Northern All-Star Team. If not, Stevenson plans on getting a note-worthy All-Star Coach. There will be two coaches for both teams; an Assistant (Celebrity) Coach and an Honored Head Coach. Not only will two prominant professional athletes who are on the UFC Undisputed 2010 video game be coaching high schoolers against each other. This All-Star-like event will be the first in any sport where the All-Star Dual Meet competitors earned their spot... not arbitrarily chosen. Please take a look at the very bottom of WP:NSPORT (Individual Games & Rivalries). Two professional athletes who coach at a high school tournament is interesting, but probably not worthy of publishing on Wikipedia... for that reason alone. But based on cumulative reasons, I believe that the "North vs South (wrestling tournament)" article will satisfy many people's curiosity and add to Wiki's notable information-base. OmniMaster (talk) 17:34, 1 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I've been considering your arguments very closely. While I'm still not convinced this event will be sufficiently notable (in the strict sense Wikipedia uses), there seems to be a reasonable chance it might be. Since it is in user space and not in article-space, I don't think there's any harm in letting it stay in terms of notability. The remaining sticking point (and the reason I started this discussion) is the concern that the material is here to be used as a promotion for the event. You can see the details of that policy at WP:PROMO, but the nutshell version is that Wikipedia is one of the most popular websites in the world and advertising an item or event here is a common pastime for spammers and well-intentioned folk alike. You strike me as being a well-intentioned editor, but the page does in fact look like a promotion for the event: it literally has the promotional poster right there. The discussion is too far along for me to simply rescind it, but I'll make you a deal: if you remove the promotional poster (the top one) and make sure that the article is as neutral as possible (i.e. make sure it doesn't read like something you'd put in an advertisement), I'll redact my deletion arguments. The other editors will need to consider things for themselves. Matt Deres (talk) 00:38, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I only planned on putting the promotional poster in the article because it seemed protocol for athletic events. Being that this event has not yet established any competative history and I have now read WP:PROMO, I can understand your issue. Maybe after the first event, I can put a relevant photo at the top-right of the article. So you understand, High School athletics doesn't really "need" any promotion per-say. Amatuer Wrestling fans are usually people who are involved in it (sometimes in a cultish manor :) ) Based on my experience in this sport, I don't really think "promoting" can help or hurt wrestling. Yet, I would love seeing this article available for public access. As a person who has been involved with wrestling in one way or another... with sooooo many kids... for a long time, I tend to speak with positive overtones concerning their efforts (which is great... but...). If I plan on being professional in writing/editing/distributing-information, I must curtail that instinct. I edited the article so that it is more plain/pure/to-the-point. It will probably take me 3 months, but when I think I am close to publishing "North vs. South (wrestling tournament)" as a real article I hope to contact you for final input. In all cases, take care. OmniMaster (talk) 01:20, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

I have redacted my nomination edit. Other editors will have to make up their own minds, but I believe that 1) the editor is working in good faith, 2) there is reason to believe that the event may be notable enough for an article when the time comes, and 3) the current state of the article is reasonably neutral. If this was in article space, I don't think it would pass notability concerns, but I don't see any reason why this editor can't work on the article in their user-space for the time being. WP:AGF, after all, right? Matt Deres (talk) 20:28, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep I agree with nom, seems unlikely this will survive, but as it is in GF, and in userspace, let it play out.-- SPhilbrick  T  12:50, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep for now to allow OmniMaster to continue revising the article. If the userspace draft is not fit to be an article in six month's time (February 2011), I see no issue with a renomination of this page at MfD. Cunard (talk) 04:00, 8 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.