Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Rjanag/Latin phonetic method of Shanghainese




 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was Move to mainspace and Delete. NW ( Talk ) 03:16, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

User:Rjanag/Latin phonetic method of Shanghainese
This article originally existed at The latin phonetic method of Shanghainese authored by who has been discovered to be the creator of this romanization method. Since then, he has posted articles on this "method" on other language projects where they remain due to the fact that for one thing, the Khmer Wikipedia is low traffic, the French Wikipedia kept it after their version of AFD in the past couple of months, the Romanian version remains because the user returns to it and keeps removing my speedy delete tag, and the Chinese version is kept because he claims that attempts to get it deleted are attempts by the Communist regime of China to censor him, and they of course all believe him.

There is no need to keep a copy of this article anywhere, even in the userspace of Rjanag (a user of the Chinese Wikipedia I contacted for assistance in getting the page deleted over there). ZHU Yeyi responds to these attempts to get the page deleted by harasing myself and Tony Sidaway here on the English Wikipedia. We should give him the boot, but that is another discussion altogether.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 20:42, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Note to Zhu: the transcription you are willing to spread is not yet notable enough to meet wikipedia criterias. Don't insist to push it on the wikipedia (EN, FR, & other). If you insist too much the reaction may be complete deletion. Regards. Yug (talk)  11:36, 29 March 2010 (UTC)  Keep:  It is true. In 2006, the first international academic symposium for Shanghainese dialect has collected this romanization of the name its creator “上海闲话abc式”. I can not understand this decision to delete. --Great Guru (talk) 07:48, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete. I originally userfied this article because it was about to get deleted but I thought it might be an encyclopedic topic if the page could be cleaned up a bit. Since then, however, I have found no convincing evidence that it meets WP:Notability, and have been troubled by Zhu Yeyi's behavior in trying to push for this to be in the encyclopedia. I spoke with several Shanghainese-speaking friends living in Shanghai, and none of them use or have even heard of this input method. Most of the links provided on the page are user-generated content (forums, etc.), sites run by a single person (such as Omniglot), and all of them merely reiterate what the letters are rather than actually discussing this input method's impact and importance; Zhu has not provided any academic or scholarly articles that cover it. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 20:47, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: ZHU Yeyi went and contacted five separate editors to take part in this discussion: Badagnani (indefinitely blocked), Mandsford, ZanderSchubert, Simfan34, and Penkyamp and that's only on the English Wikipedia. At the French Wikipedia, he has contacted Yug, Croquant, Azurfrog, Skippy le Grand Gourou, Schlum, and WPF2008. This is completely ridiculous and just shows that he is scrambling to keep his life's work on as many Wikipedia projects as he knows how to speak the languages of. He has consistently removed my speedy delete tags at the Romanian and Khmer Wikipedias, and the Khmer Wikipedia has not had an admin edit in over a week.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 21:44, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: Ryūlóng: that Zhu contacted me (Yug), Croquant, Azurfrog, Skippy le Grand Gourou, Schlum, and WPF2008 is its rights. Please argument on content only. I'm myself one of the local editor 'expert' on Chinese characters on both Wikipedia FR & EN and find natural he contacted me. I keep my own opinion on this topic: This specific input method is a minor topic to peacefully userfy ; The transcription of the Wu language deserve encyclopedic coverage. Both you and Zhu are really boring to fight that much for a such small issue. --Yug (talk)  11:16, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * As for being the "local expert on Chinese characters"...I'm not familiar with your work on en-wiki so no comment there, but I don't see the relevance of your work on fr-wiki. fr-wiki has very different inclusion standards than en-wiki does, and its coverage of Chinese characters is frankly a joke, so participation in that strange project doesn't really give you extra authority here. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 15:18, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Comment: To remove the other editions. Ryulong sabotaged the French edition yesterday. I asked for the administrators of intervene. And the French edition is already under protection. --ZHU Yeyi (talk) 06:16, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * You asked for people to come here. That is all you have done. You are trying to protect your intellectual property and have it hosted on Wikipedias.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 06:26, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 *  Speed Keep: (strike since the user-owner seems to wish the deletion too: there is no more issue -> delete and close this issue) this draft is in the userspace, its right place. Speed keep, this delete request page is a waste of time.
 * This discussion is about whether the topic is encyclopedic at all, not just about this draft, as I already explained in my post above (which you apparently did not read). I can delete this draft whenever I want, as it's in my userspace. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 13:09, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I have not requested a reopening of the English edtion, but Mr. Ryulong does not tolerate the presence of this in other editions.--ZHU Yeyi (talk) 12:29, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * -___- ??! it's your namespace, you want delete it, so just blank it, and ask deletion on an admit's talk page and that's done. Yug (talk)  14:45, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I already explained this, did you read it? I don't need to ask an admin to delete it, I am an admin. The issue is about whether this topic is ever going to be worthy of an article, and that issue won't be discussed if I delete it on my own right now. Believe me, I will delete this page after the discussion is ended, but the point of having a discussion is to establish a consensus to deal with this topic in the future. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 15:17, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete as the user whose userspace hosts this page also wishes it to be deleted. As he stated, its notability is not shown. Airplaneman   ✈  03:06, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * : As an English administrator, M. Rjanag is obliged to defend the decision of his team. :)--ZHU Yeyi (talk) 17:17, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I find it odd as to how you found this page other than being directed here by ZHU Yeyi.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 08:47, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * What are you actually voting for? Is there any particular reason you struck your own vote at the same time you placed it? Are you just here to waste everyone's time? r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

I have consulted the record before yesterday. I've just gives a free opinion. --Great Guru (talk) 05:17, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep for now - its only a user space draft, I think there is far too much heat being expended on the issue for a mere user space draft. It's only problem is notability and possibly COI, its not a copyvio or BLP or so on issue, and its a mere user space draft, so there is no pressing need to delete it right now. Why not just let it be for a while? Come back in 12 months, and propose deletion on it again then? --SJK (talk) 09:17, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Because AFD already decided against keeping it in the article space and it was only saved by Rjanag who is now lobbying for its total removal from the project.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 09:23, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Just because something is AFD doesn't mean it necessarily needs to be deleted as a user space draft. I don't see any harm in keeping it as such. However, if User:Rjanag wants to delete it, they can just, and then this whole MFD will be moot. --SJK (talk) 09:47, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * You appear to be the third person who has not read or not understood any of what I wrote above. r ʨ anaɢ (talk) 13:28, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete without prejudice You seem to want a "sticky" consensus about the future inclusion of this topic. We can't do that here.  Consensus, and notability of a subject, can change.  If you want a page in your own userspace deleted, that's your decision, and you can tag it for speedy.  But we can't form a consensus here that the topic will never be suitable for inclusion.  You are asking for something that we don't have the authority to give.  Gigs (talk) 16:59, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete as a userspace draft that has little chance of becoming an article and per Rjanag's request. I agree with excluding this topic from inclusion in the encyclopedia (in anyone's userspace). Cunard (talk) 00:36, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Can someone please clean this MfD up? It's inappropriate to have this much irrelevant information and discussion in the MfD.  Gigs (talk) 01:39, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I've moved it all off to the talk page. I've also removed a statement that he copied of mine without providing where I stated it.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 02:45, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, it appears that due to ZHU Yeyi's constant modification of this page to how the French Wikipedia treats these things that it was accidentally removed by Rjanag and then moved by ZHU Yeyi.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 02:54, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Update. I was going to close this and delete the page myself, as it's in my own userspace; this was my closing statement: "self-delete. Per Gigs, we can't use an MfD to get consensus for an AfD if this ever turns into an article space, so there's not much point continuing. This page is being gamed by Zhu Yeyi, who has canvassed numerous people, and is just sucking up time (I think we've spent more time cleaning up Zhu's formatting problems and moving overlong comments to the talk page than actually discussing the issue). It's not something I want in my userspace, and if it appears in mainspace again we'll cross that bridge when we get there." But upon further consideration, I realized that Zhu Yeyi actually has more edits to it than anyone else, even though it's in my userspace, so I'm not sure how that affects attribution and "ownership" stuff; note that WP:CSD would only apply if I were the only substantial contributor to the page. Perhaps I can delete the page and e-mail Zhu a copy, I dunno. Will post a message at ANI asking for more help. r ʨ anaɢ</b> (talk) 15:12, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.